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Comment by mark212 | Hacker News Reader

I'd rather milk them than kill them for hamburger and shoes.

What do you think happens to all the male calves that are born each year to keep dairy cows lactating?

For milk to come the cow needs to deliver a calf. How long will you allow the calf to drink her mums milk, before you decide that calf hurts your bottom line?

Most commonly the calf is removed from the mom in a few hours, after which the mum is crying for her kid for several days.

Dairy is super cruel, besides it being very unhealthy for humans (especially humans after their weening phase).

> the mum is crying for her kid

Sounds awful. Do you have a reference where I can read/watch more about it?

This video sums up the dark side of the dairy industry pretty well:

https://youtu.be/UcN7SGGoCNI

I'd say that video shows the worst of the dairy industry.

I grew up spending time on a grandparents dairy over school holidays. It was nothing like this video. Yes you do have things like farms putting their arm up cows vigina and bobby calves being separated. But usually it's a clean and non-traumatic process. Things like the mastitis and blood in the milk is unusual.

While I dont doubt there are some highly cruel and unethical operations running, on the dairy farms I used to spend time on those farmers love their animals. That's what these video rarely show, the care and love farmers have for their animals. And 99% of the time that animal is happy and well looked after. But grab clips of the worst farmers at their worst moments and this is what you get.

The vast majority of milk on supermarket shelves comes from factory farms operating exactly as described in the video. But even the best run boutique family dairy farms are going to have to figure out what to do with their male calves.

Watch this recent German documentary to see the reaction when a Bavarian dairy farmer that takes pride in treating her animals well sees the ultimate horrific fate of one of her male calves:

https://youtu.be/295wKcuDGQk

Wow. This is really, really awful. Thanks for sharing that video

1) My grandparents operation and a few others I have spent time with were from boutique operations. At least in the regions I have seen the majority of the market is not based on suppliers as you say. Perhaps there is data to the contrary as my experience is within 2 regional bubbles only, but your statement is not true in these regions.

2) I speed watch through a good part of the documentary. 100% there is some horrifyingly bad footage there. I feel its fair to note what I saw in Germany / France the animals are treated well. The horrifying footage was largely shot in developing countries in the middle east. This supports what my original comment was about, the information being provided shows a skewed view. And I haven't seen anything to change my mind that in some regions animals are treated well and looked after. And in others, they are not.

The point of the video is that dairy farms generate surplus male calves, which have to be disposed of somehow. The male calves may be treated well when they're being raised but it's those very same male calves that are often shipped abroad from countries like Germany to meet the fate you see there. This is an intrinsic part of the dairy business because cows must be kept pregnant to produce milk. I think you should watch the whole thing because you missed the point.

At least in the US, 80% of the milk sold is from factory farms, where cows are certainly not treated well.

https://www.organicconsumers.org/essays/how-boycott-milk-fac...

It is awful. We had a newborn calf die this year and mom called for it for 3 or 4 days. But we also only raise 4 or 5 new cows each year just for us and a few local friends. So our scale is much smaller than the large dairy operations.

Veal is a byproduct of dairy

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