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Comment by sschueller | Hacker News Reader

The kids would need to be in the bag for 6 hours. I don't see how that is any better than them going directly.

Maybe Musk should send a giant pump to get that water out. Don't they have large pumps at space X to fill those rockets?

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SpaceX isn't some magical company with a warehouse full of equipment that's better than anywhere else in the world.

It's hardly like the Thai's are using buckets to drain the cave, they'll already have the highest capacity pumps they can find.

A pump for pumping rocket fuel into a rocket is very different to the kind of pump you'd use to pump out a cave. For a start, rocket fuel isn't filled with grit and other bits.

authorities on Friday estimated they have pumped out more than 35 million gallons in the past week

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/07/06/cave-rescues-...

How many gallons in it ? If they have point of drain, i.e. anything below lowest point of water body of that depth, pumping is the best solution.

I don’t have the citation, but recall reading that the water level is only going down about a centimetre per hour. With more heavy rains on the way, CO2 levels spiking, and uncertainties about the ledge they are on, it seems they have decided they don’t have the time.

> I don't see how that is any better than them going directly.

It means they don't need to keep themselves oriented in an underwater 3D maze while operating unfamiliar breathing equipment.

A dark murky underwater 3d maze at that, with a current.

And a lifeline. And artificial lighting. And regular air refills.

All the lighting in the world won't help you see through mud, silt, and sediment.

I'd imagine two or even four divers taking each kid in between them. I assume there's a line, so no one is navigating and the route is fully supplied with any additional air needed. People go on intro dives all the time where an instructor does everything. Obviously the element of the long and narrow passages makes things a lot more difficult but it's doable. You just take your time. This completely unknown new technology seems riskier to me... Full face dive masks take most of the "tricky" don't breath in through the nose out of the equation. I'm a sport diver.

That said, there's always some people who "lose it" during a dive course or even newly certified divers. Though I've yet to hear of anyone who decides to stop breathing air and opt for water, usually they bolt to the top, which isn't an option here. That risk can be mitigated by doing "pool" dives right where the kid are and perhaps short stays in the adjacent cave areas. Maybe some relaxing music can be played as well... Another possibility is adding some "rest stop" by creating air pockets along the way.

Things you are ignoring:

1- We're talking about kids who haven't dove before and probably don't even know how to swim

2- The visibility is 0. Some would be uncomfortable walking through tight dark spaces, let alone having to dive through them.

3- They're kids.

> probably don't even know how to swim

I find it surprising that clearly sport-oriented children from a fairly popular tourist beach destination don't know how to swim.

If you are poor living away from the beach, it's perfectly natural that you spend your entire childhood without even seeing the beach let alone learning how to swim. Thailand is not an island.

I live in a landlocked country and nearly everyone I know can swim. People usually swim in public pools, lakes or ponds. Swimming is also very often part of the PE middle school curriculum here.

Good of your country. Many cities in SE Asia have none of three. If you are in upper middle class, you can afford private swimming pool membership. Less then .1% schools have swimming pool. Rivers are polluted enough and have no infrastructure in place for swimmers.

You live in rich landlocked country (compared to Thailand).

In many Asian cultures, swimming is discouraged, parents think it will increase chance of their kids drowning.

Drowning is the leading cause of death of young people in Thailand.

At a pool under a waterfall in Thailand last year I saw a bunch of young people trying to swim. No one wanted to be the first in. Some were plainly terrified. Water was waist deep only! Quite a sight.

In general swimming is not particularly popular in Thailand. Dark skin complexion is seen as something for the poor or uncultured (foreigners generally excluded), and that tends to go along with swimming. This is why you can find more than a few local hotels that will have pools built under natural shade. That way you can swim without being in the sun, even though it's something the vast majority of their target clientele would not want! It's also why you might see a Thai fully dressed while swimming at the beach or a pool. It's not about modesty - it's about avoiding the tan!

They wouldn't need to swim. They would be pushed/towed and/or pulling on a rope. Diving isn't like swimming- the hardest part of swimming is staying on the surface and being able to breath. When you're diving you're just floating there and you have air. Divers typically use fins for propulsion which is quite different than swimming.

Also: benzodiazepines.

These are kids so weak I’m not even sure they are allowed to eat solid food yet and some of them don’t know how to swim.

A trained Thai Navy Seal died on the route. If these kids have to swim for it the betting odds are they all drown.

No one has any idea on what to do. That’s why nothing’s been done.

Not nothing, they are bringing them oxygen, food and water.

Having them go directly relies on them keeping themselves calm while doing something that makes many adults panic. I'm not expert but I believe one key to successful diving is maintaining your heart rate at a certain pace.

Musk offered to send pumps too IIRC, but I'm not sure they took him up on it.

You'd consume your air much faster if your pulse was racing but other than that it shouldn't be a problem. If you're scared of closed spaces you might panic but other than that diving is a pretty calming experience for most adults. Sure, if you were diving by yourself in that cave and got lost you'd probably panic but if there's a solid plan/route in place with plenty of margin it shouldn't be that risky. Water temperature and depth seem favourable, there are plenty of open areas on the way. I was really surprised to hear about that diver death, someone must have been taking some unnecessary risks or not paying attention/following procedures. I think only a fraction of the route actually requires diving.

The whole cave isn't flooded. They'd only be in the bag / submarine in the flooded parts.

Is that how long the trip is for the divers?!!? frightening.

Yes but there are points that are not underwater and they can take a break.

How far into the cave are they!?

3 miles, to escape the flooding they kept heading inwards till they found a safe spot.

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