I don't read hear or read this sentiment nearly as often as I would like.
Good on these folks for stepping up.
I’m all for legal immigration. I guess I just don’t understand all the support for illegal immigration.
Edit: based on the downvotes, there must be some kind of benefit to the US arising from illegal immigration that I’m missing. Could one of you that downvoted this please explain that benefit to me?
The contents of letter state that it is a reaction to the recent news that babies and toddlers of immigrants crossing the border illegally are being separated from their parents in the hundreds. We have no evidence that these parents have been charged with violent or other crimes of a nature that might justify the separation for the children's safety.
In no way does the letter assert that it supports illegal immigration, as I think your comment suggests. Rather, the letter accuses ICE of inhumane treatment of children in a way that violates international law.
So the letter cosigners might very well be strongly against illegal immigration. I am strongly against homicide, for instance. That being said, I would like our prisons to treat convicted murderers in a humane way. Just because I am against murder, it doesn't mean I want prisoners to be water boarded or starved or what have you.
When parents commit crimes, they are going to wind up being separated from their children. This is a consequence of breaking the law - you commit a crime, and then you go to jail. Your children can’t be with you in jail, so you get separated. The evidence that they have committed a crime in the case of illegal entry is by default - they couldn’t be arrested by the US border patrol unless they violated the law, because the US border patrol doesn’t arrest people in Mexico, they arrest them in the US.
So, in order to support these parents not being separated from their children, you have to support not prosecuting people for illegally entering the country. That, by definition, means you have to be in favor of illegal immigration.
But why would the "greatest" country in the world use any nuance when dealing with vulnerable people, right, nuance is for rich people and their powerful lawyers, not for people fleeing death.
I dare you to be specific when you make your arguments about law and order. Own the specifics. Proper procedure is a very important part of seeking asylum and all that. Don't hide behind words like "commit crimes" and "violated the law", actually say "misdemeanor border crossing".
My point is that bloviating about law and order when the crime is minor and the danger (in many cases) is real, is pathetic. It'd be less pathetic to make it clear that you think that babies should be taken away from mothers that have merely crossed the border away from an official port of entry.
When did I say that? I just think that mothers shouldn’t be bringing their babies to illegally enter the country in the first place.
1. Incarcerates people for the victimless “crime” of taking drugs
2. Takes away their kids and sticks them in foster homes or worse
3. Enriches drug gangs in Mexico thru criminalizing their competition in the US
4. Catches families trying to escape the gangs by coming to the US for asylum
5. Punishes the kids for yet another victimless crime of crossing the US border
I would like to ask the Christian child-loving, Bible-following voters:
Is America great yet?
But there are 2000 kids that ICE has separated for longer than a week (even months) and even placed in social care.
You wouldn't do that if one was caught speeding, but for illegal crossings it's ok?
It has never resulted in mass separation of families until now. For example, in 2014, when large waves of immigrants fleeing violence in central America entered the US illegally and were apprehended by ICE, they were detained in family detention centers where children and parents were together.
Your suggestion that the only two choices are support for illegal immigration or support for separating babies and toddlers from families isn't supported by reality.
I don't base my political beliefs on what is good for the U.S. alone. There are plenty of things that are good for the U.S. but negative for other people.
As an example, think of Western expansion in the early 1800's and policies directed towards Native Americans and how certain practices were "good" for the US but bad for other people.
It is not an Obama-era policy. It is not a Clinton-era policy. It is not a law from any administration.
Even if it were a law, there is exactly nothing wrong with disagreeing with cruel and unusual behavior, even if it is codified in a statute at any level of government.
Note that it is only those who are following asylum procedure who are being separated. Illegal immigration is still happening, and those families make it into the US every day, whole. Unseparated.
I am not American, but this is the point in time where you take a stand. Where America needs to fight for it's democracy. This is not the time to be complacent.
What does democracy have to do with the right to immigrate to America without permission?
Edit: I’m not commenting on the propriety of the Microsoft employees’ actions. They are clearly free to urge their employer to refrain from participating in something they disagree with. That is absolutely part of what living in a free society is all about. I’m commenting on the notion that they are somehow “defending democracy”.
Hell, even if you approve of how they are enforcing border policy doesn't mean you necessarily want to work on the machinations of it.
If a majority votes to carry out an unpleasant action but then can't find anyone willing to carry it out on their behalf, it might be a warning sign. (Honestly, I don't think we're that far gone though. I think we've just got a case of "We should control our borders... wait, no, not like that!")
I feel you are using the word democracy in a very narrow sense of the word: popularity contest. Look no further than the Egyptian government that arose from Arab Spring to see how little such "election winner takes all" democratic governments differ from autocracy.
Democracy, taken in the broader sense of a truly free country, requires much more than just free elections. Human rights and rule of law are just as important. Indeed, our two most important founding documents, the declaration of independence and constitution, clearly outline a vision for a humane country that respects that all individuals possess human rights that our government cannot violate.
I believe the parent is calling on fellow citizens to defend our democracy’s enshrinement of human rights.
> What does democracy have to do with the right to immigrate to America without permission?
Who is claiming these immigrants have a right to immigrate to America without permission? Certainly not the Microsoft employees or anyone in this thread.
The letter doesn't complain that ICE is enforcing immigration laws. It asserts that ICE is doing so in a way that is inhumane to children.
In short, this isn't just an immigration issue. It's a human rights issue.
There must be more than one country that puts kids in prison with the parents, but right now I can only think of one: North Korea
Most people consider that to be cruel and inhumane.
In case you were thinking that parents (or all people?) should never go to prison, well... that gets absurd. Unless you have some other punishment in mind, it means that parents literally get away with murder.
A majority of Americans think that.
Regardless what we got for the 2016 election, it was no mandate.
What part of that is confusing?