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Comment by ggchappell | Hacker News Reader

It seems to me that this article is concentrating on the wrong thing. The biggest problem in the incidents in question is not misbehavior by police; it is misbehavior by EMS workers.

Consider: a police officer and an EMS worker are dealing with someone who is difficult to subdue. The police officer -- who does not have the expertise to know whether it is a good idea -- requests that the person be injected with ketamine. The EMS worker -- who does have the expertise -- does so, knowing that it is a bad idea.

What most needs to change here is the EMS system.

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EDIT. I guess I mean to say that the people involved here (as opposed to the article) are concentrating on the wrong thing. The police are the ones that have changed their policies. But it seems to be the EMS system that has the more serious problem.

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How do you infer that the article concentrates on the misbehavior of police more than misbehavior by EMS workers?

I have read it a few times now, and I don't get that interpretation.

If anything, the medical system comes off worse. For example, compare:

> Hennepin EMS Medical Director Jeffrey Ho and Minnesota Poison Control System Medical Director Jon Cole dismissed the findings of the report as a “reckless use of anecdotes and partial snapshots of interactions with police, and incomplete information and statistics to draw uninformed and incorrect conclusions.”

with

> Minneapolis Police Chief Medaria Arradondo would not comment on the specifics of the draft, but credited it for changing his department’s approach to interacting with EMS workers.

> How do you infer that the article concentrates on the misbehavior of police more than misbehavior by EMS workers?

Well, I guess it's not so much that the article concentrates on police misbehavior, but that the actual people involved did so. The article does not give us complete information, of course, but it appears that the police basically said, "We messed up, and we're fixing things," while the EMS people said, "There isn't any problem." And since the EMS people apparently are the problem, I find the response disturbing.

The article is based on "the findings of an investigation conducted by the Office of Police Conduct Review", so I think it's reasonable that it concentrates on the police conduct.

That's assuming the premise "it is a bad idea" is true.

I also don't believe it is inappropriate for the police to suggest that physical restraint isn't working and that something else should be tried (as that is there area of expertise)

I don't think it's inappropriate either. But we should note that police do not have expertise regarding the administration of drugs.

Someone with no expertise in a field can suggest anything they want to. Those with expertise who are actually making the decisions need to be held to account for them.

I absolutely agree that the folks pushing the drugs are the ones responsible.

My point is that it is reasonable for police to say "we're getting our asses kicked, this isn't working, can you sedate this person?"

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