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Comment by cellis | Hacker News Reader

I'll admit, DHH coming into Hacker News is a breath of fresh air, even if a few of the 20-somethings here (including myself) can sniff out the psuedo-defeatist , "statistically its not possible" scent it is tinged with. I think, on the whole of things, pg isn't out to attract the type of people that want to start the types of business DHH is talking about.

I think pg is set out to do the same thing VC's do (invest in outlandish, maybe crazy ideas), albeit with a focus on extremely good hackers and with a fraction of the budget.

What DHH seems to be implying is that you should focus on building something that you can get paid for, right away, and throw away the big dreams. Which is pretty much the opposite of pg.

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> throw away the big dreams

AFAIK all he meant was: don't throw away your easily achievable dreams.

That is not the opposite of pg's thoughts.

DHH is saying that your dreams should have to do with the merits of your offering, not the strength of your cap table. You're caricaturing him.

Maybe I'm in the minority. I think DHH's arrival here is a big gust of foul air.

Suddenly the arguments are getting out of control, and pg's participating. Nitpicky, negative, petty debates.

I've read every DHH post that's appeared here in the past days, and every one of them comes off like the work of a sophomoric contrarian who believes that the minor success he's had entitles him to tell the world how to think.

I like this place better when positive, hopeful people are having conversations.

This air just stinks.

I have enjoyed the comments in this post, even if sometimes negative.

For example the PG's and DHH's discussion about definition of a "startup" might seem like nitpicking when taken out of context, but I found it extremely valuable.

Extremely valuable? Why? Because DHH deigned to comment on our little forum? Can't be for any other reason: he's not saying anything interesting or useful, anything less than obvious.

Why do you care so much? It's not like DHH is going to be banned for saying things you don't love.

I found it extremely valuable, because I would like to know what exactly the term "startup" means. Not a dictionary definition, but how people really use the term.

We all argue from our narrow perspective. Certainly pg did, at least at first, when he offered his own startup experiences as a model for others. Perhaps since then his vision has been more empirically verified. But DHH's advice is basically conservative -- he's just arguing that web businesss can grow like other conventional small businesses -- so it has a fair amount of weight behind it too.

"Narrow" is a relative term. PG is not as narrow as DHH.

pg and dhh have been very civil in their exchanges, even though perhaps they're not exactly arguing over profound ideas. It appears that you are the one who has introduced personal attacks on dhh. Would you say those things to him in person?

Read again. No, they haven't. David goads; PG apparently feels the need to defend himself. I presume that it's because he's answering DHH -- the argument itself is pointless, and DHH's points are sophomoric and trivial. It is devolving.

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