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Comment by TimTheTinker | Hacker News Reader

> But then, how do you anonymously lease and manage that VPS?

At least on DigitalOcean, it’s possible to create an anonymous account (no name required, not even by their TOS) connected to an anonymous email provider and funded by a cash-purchased Visa gift card. And a $5/mo droplet running IKEv2 VPN traffic (see Algo) is very secure and provides more than enough bandwidth/throughput for several people.

That would only leave the traffic itself (particularly the IP address(es) that initiate connections to your droplet). DO has a policy of not logging traffic unless an abuse alert is triggered.

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> DO has a policy of not logging traffic unless an abuse alert is triggered.

I'd be willing to bet they log all the info about the signup process though, including the IP address used. It's how you prevent abuse.

The question then becomes, how do you hide your IP address from the DO signup process. I know, used a VPN! Wait a second...

Mullvad.net (a VPN provider) gives 3 hour accounts for free. You solve a captcha and they give you an account id to use to connect to their servers. If you want to keep using that account id for more than 3 hours you have to add money to that account. You can pay them in cash (they're in Sweden though) or Bitcoin, credit card, etc. They don't even ask you for your email and they claim to not keep logs that would allow to match an IP and a time stamp to a user [1].

[1] https://torrentfreak.com/vpn-services-anonymous-review-2017-...

One more thought - connecting via a temporary Mullvad account from a public or obscured entry point (perhaps during an international trip or at a McDonalds) would probably be the most straightforward method. The worst you're giving away is that entry point (to Sweden's loggers), but the DO/VPS fraud detection is less likely to fire if you're going through Mullvad.

To be clear, my own goal in all of this is primarily to get through residential ISP snooping -- I don't trust them not to sell my personal info. Staying out of the state dragnets is also a plus (I don't like the idea of snoops in a building somewhere reading my personal emails; same reason I close the living room curtains in the evening).

Yes, one can "anonymously" use WiFi APs. But it's hard to get close enough without becoming observable. And more and more, without being videoed. I've played with a Ubiquiti radio and parabolic antenna, and can hit APs at several km. But then, the dish is pretty big, so you need a large window. And unsecured APs have become harder to find.

It’s a lot easier to escape surveillance in the suburbs and rural areas. That being said, the ratio of McDonalds franchise density to population density goes higher the further out you go (at least in the US).

Note - Sweden is one of the “14 eyes”, so your browsing session (origin and destination IP, date/time) very well may be logged by their backbone, if not by Mullvad itself.

You can use pre-pay internet or public wifi to sign up

Public library?

Is that you, Dread Pirate Roberts?

blimey!

Why can't you just sign up via tor?

Ordering any server from a tor IP, even dirt cheap shared hosting plans, will trip their fraud detections 100% of the time. You'll likely get an email asking for photo ID.

I buy all my vpses via Tor, it takes some effort. But after a while I always manage to find a provider where I can complete the process. So, not all the providers all the time. Just some of them some of the time.

It depends on the hoster. BitHost has no problem with Tor exit IPs. Neither does Host Sailor. I know a few others, but sharing names would be imprudent.

Could using tor for the signup process work?

Or just use bithost.io, and get DO droplets for well-mixed Bitcoin. There's a premium, I admit.

But even with all that, there's the risk of logging. I don't get how DO differs from whatever "no logging" VPN service, in that regard.

I don’t trust them implicitly, but I do trust them more than any “VPN service” — to me, those are all honeypots (whether intentionally or not).

The point is that you can't trust anyone. And so you distribute trust.

That works only if each additional layer properly covers the whole surface.

A few years ago I tried that as an experiment. I wanted to see if I could setup completely anonymous Tor exit nodes. It didn't work.

I bought a prepaid debit card at a grocery store with cash. I tried to sign up for a few VPS providers using coffee shop WiFi. All wanted additional verification or wouldn't allow me to use the card. All providers use 3rd party services (eg MaxMind) to prevent fraud and prepaid cards is one of the things they look for.

Has anyone had luck doing this?

I've run into the issue as well. You just need to find providers that don't ask.

In the US you have to provide a Social Security number to activate your cash-purchased Visa gift card.

Not true. There may be some that do, but not all - just know ahead of time before you walk into the store.

It looks like your correct. I was under the impression that the USA PATRIOT Act required all cash cards to collect that information, but looking up the details it appears to only apply to reloadable cards in that they "establish a banking relationship" with the provider.

Algo

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