Hacker News Reader

Comment by toomuchtodo | Hacker News Reader

Try to get the data out of your GM or Ford airbag flash storage device (any vehicle with a data logger paired to the airbag subsystem, which is most cars on the road) and see how similar the process is.

More “journalistic” nonsense. I agree they have a lot of legitimate issues (cash flow, scaling, retention, working conditions, process maturity, overpromising) to deal with, but can’t journalists focus on those instead of clickbait?

Sidenote: if you take issue with this, sponsor a federal law to fix the problem through your legislator

View on HN

Tesla's a new company, either they're holding themselves to a higher standard than the establishment or they aren't. If they're not then I'm going with the establishment. I can overlook a great great great many things in service of the cause of disrupting the auto industry.

But this? Asking me to take personal responsibility with no legal recourse? This is the line they can't ask me to cross. If this is fake news, fine, it'll come out. If it's not, then sorry Tesla, can't do it.

> Tesla's a new company, either they're holding themselves to a higher standard than the establishment or they aren't. If they're not then I'm going with the establishment. I can overlook a great great great many things in service of the cause of disrupting the auto industry.

They're not. They restrict access to the service manuals behind a ridiculously expensive subscription that's only provided in states where it's legally required. It costs $30 a day or $3000 a year.

Service manuals for other cars cost ~$50 for a hardcopy.

https://electrek.co/2017/01/30/tesla-opening-up-service-repl...

Tesla's attitude is almost like you don't own your car, you're just leasing it in perpetuity from Tesla for a one-time fee.

I'm fine with that, just don't ask me to take personal liability for your mistakes. That's the line this crosses. I expect society to eventually fix the repair issue and if it doesn't, I'm not too worried about getting priced out of the repair market after my warranty expires.

This affects me personally.

That’s for each consumer to decide of course. I bought my Model S fully knowing what I was getting into.

I consider them holding themselves to a higher standard, but as in politics, you can’t find someone who agrees with you 100% in office. Have to compromise, and this isn’t a hill I care to die on.

As I stated above, it’s a public policy issue, not Tesla specific.

> if you take issue with this, sponsor a federal law to fix the problem through your legislator

I fail to see how Tesla's refusal to release data is a public policy issue and that legislation is required to fix that state of affairs. They could, you know, just release the data. Then the onus is on the rest of the industry.

More to the point, Tesla's wish to be seen as a market disrupter is only going to hold as much water for me as their willingness to do it when it counts. This is one of those "when it counts" moments for me.

If they don't release the data, and other automakers don't release the data, it's industry standard behavior. The onus is on you, the consumer, to ask for regulation to fix the behavior if you want it fixed; not complain specifically about Tesla's behavior.

"We will be disruptive when we can seem to be more consumer-friendly unless it makes us look bad, at that point we'll just say 'that's the industry standard, sorry you're SOL!'".

Can't help unrealistic expectations. If you don't like the policy, don't buy the car.

I mean, it's a bit silly, no? Everyone complaining in this thread while Tesla churns out thousands of vehicles a week to a backlog of consumers willing to wait at least another year for their vehicle. To you, it might be an issue. To those who matter (Tesla investors, employees, and customers), it isn't. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The market has spoken.

The people who are complaining in the posted article are fellow Tesla owners. They don't "matter" to Tesla (or to you, obviously)?

Not that Tesla owners should be the only ones interested in the policies of Tesla, one of the most high-valued car companies and potential industry leaders. I'm not an Android user but I pay attention to how they deal with privacy and security issues.

The Tesla PR machine has done everything it can to build hype and expectations, that didn’t come out of nowhere. As for don’t buy the car, given the increased rate of refunds, clearly that’s the trend. It is a bit silly though, for a business with a sky-high market cap to adopt a take it or leave it attitude about the sales they so desperately need.

The market also speaks by shorting Tesla, and with TSLA volatility on par with a cryptocurrency.

This sounds like the position of a diehard believer. Jesus never asked anyone to go to the cross with him. Putting the onus on me is like asking me to fix Rome so they don't have to execute him.

No, it was the act of going to the cross that made it possible for Rome to not crucify Christians in the future. Or for you non-Christians, an act of symbolism through self-sacrifice. If Tesla wants to be Jesus, it's going to have to get up on the cross. Otherwise nothing changes.

I'm going to put this another way. How much of Tesla's reputation was built on their approach to vehicle safety? That's great, I don't have to worry about my life when I get into a Tesla. But I'm in that weird position in the world where I can afford a Tesla, but not the burden of a legal case. I can look after myself, but I can't make the software not fuck up.

If Tesla can't shoulder that responsibility, I'm certainly not going to.

But what is not "industry standard", as far as I can tell, is to release user data without permission in press releases.

Can you point to an instance where GM/Ford published a user's data in a press release to defend itself?

Are you saying that it's a bad thing for Tesla to defend itself with its collected data?

No, but based on reading the article, it seems like Tesla owners are particularly engaged on this issue because they've seen how Tesla divulges user data to the public to defend themselves.

I would absolutely say that, especially if they turn around and refuse to release the data on other occasions for supposedly "privacy" reasons.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com