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Comment by rangibaby | Hacker News Reader

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

There's a lot of truth and value in that quote, but understanding the context behind it is important. It's boxing - everyone understands they will be punched in the mouth, has practiced getting punched, etc.

You need a plan, but have to be able to adapt to changing circumstances.

For reference, that quote was given in an interview about his upcoming fight against Evander Holyfield. Holyfield dominated the fight, Tyson bit him twice, and the fight was stopped in the 11th round with Holyfield as the winner.

(It would have been more arrogant to say, but perhaps more honestly stated as "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth by Mike Tyson". Tyson is widely considered to be the hardest hitting boxer in history. He retired with a record of 50-6, with 44 wins by knockout and 22 of those knockouts were in the first round.)

I feel like "reality" is a good placeholder for Mike Tyson. It hits quite hard at times :)

You're conflating the two Tyson/Holyfield fights. Tyson bit Holyfield twice in the second fight which was stopped in the third round (with Tyson being disqualified).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Tyson#Tyson_vs._Holyfield...

> "You need a plan, but have to be able to adapt to changing circumstances."

Unfortunately, not all us are the masters of our own universe of deadlines. Too often they're semi arbitrary, set by someone who's not aware of the intricacies, etc.

The point being, even when you have a great plan to get something done, it might not be good enough in the broader (distorted) context? Then what?

You do the best you can? You are always the master of your dealing with your reality.

Communicate. Express your perspective. Manage your reaction. Master what you have domain over, your reactions to the world. Do not be a slave to disappointment.

Sou, let's say a new deadline sets you up for failure. You communicate this perspective. You manage the pang of panic, get to work, do your best.

It's still failure.

It's not that you disappoint yourself, since you _knew_ it was practically impossible to succeed. You dealt with your reality, you mastered your domain. People will still get angry and disappointed that the deadline was not met. Not always, but some (most) of the time, you'll end up taking the blame, or even disciplined/fired.

What you're met with is "So what, change jobs, reframe your perspective, grab life by the balls".

This kind of positive thinking does not solve anything. It's simplistic and misdirected. You'll eventually find this situation in every job you take (or make). What can you learn from the experience? No amount of "mastering your reality" will make this a positive experience. Ok, maybe the first time, you learn that you can't always win. But that is all, no lessons learned for all subsequent ocurrences.

Yes, I'm bitter. But you're saccharine.

Not your fault, but i'm sick of seeing this kind of naive responses that belong in mugs or motivational posters.

That was my point. The ancient stoics would advise you to administer control over what you can. If you did the best you can to influence the situation to a positive result, and it still failed, there is nothing you can do. All that is left is how you react to the situation. Modern psychology would call this CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy). Basically, your reaction and how you deal with things internally is all that is left after you have done what you can. Life has so many elements beyond our control. Focus on what you can change and do not let the unchangeable pull you down. I appreciate your frustration at my advice. If I didn't practice it myself and know how hard it can be to follow, I would never blithely hand it out as some sort of cure all to what ails your mind. It is hard. The mindset takes work. It isn't a magical switch to flip. This is /not/ positive thinking. Stoics did not practice positive thinking in the way pop culture does. In fact they embraced reflecting on negative aspects of life. People will get angry at you for things beyond your control. Your friends or loved ones may die tomorrow. You might get fired. The goal is not to make bad experiences as positive. It is to acknowledge the bad things happened and return to a neutral or centered mental state so you can go on living life. It is kind of a Zen philosophy on that never aiming for "positive" outcomes all the time that we experience fulfillment and joy. There is a lot more to CBT and Stoicism, but this is the high level of it. Hope this explains it some more.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5617966-a-guide-to-the-g...

http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html

https://www.goodtherapy.org/learn-about-therapy/types/cognit...

I don't think that this belongs on a mug. What is your alternative? What would you do instead?

I'm not saying that this response will fix the problem. But it seems that the first part: communicate your perspective; is crucial. If you don't, then you still fail, but people will believe you thought it possible.

I like to disagree and commit. Keeps me sane, and at least I can show that I knew shit would hit the fan.

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