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Comment by lotsofpulp | Hacker News Reader

Car maintenance requires the most expensive thing of all, time. Plus tools, plus experience. Once you take apart something on your car, if you can't get it back together, you're out of luck.

You also have to be physically strong and able to get to lug nuts and other rusted connections loose. I highly doubt most women can take tires off and lift them and put them back on, especially for SUV.

I think oil and air filter changes can be done by most though, especially if they get a fumoto valve. I would hesitate to recommend brake jobs for most people though.

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" I highly doubt most women can take tires off and lift them and put them back on, especially for SUV."

This is either sexist, ignorant, or both. I put myself through school working as a mechanic, and very few jobs require more strength than the average 10 year old girl has. That is the entire point of tools, they provide adequate leverage.

Additionally, it seems sexist to single out women, what about older men? I've certainly met plenty of women physically stronger than me, and most healthy adults should be able to lift even a heavy 60lb tire the few inches necessary to mount it. Unless you are installing a transmission, if you are putting in significant physical effort then you are using the wrong tool or technique. For instance, for the other commenters that mentioned difficult lug nuts- Go to harbor freight and purchase a 1/2" breaker bar, at least 18" long but preferably 24", along with a socket to fit your lug nuts. To crack the lug nuts, use your body weight and bounce on one foot. Even if the shop that installed them didn't over-torque the nuts, road grit and salt can make them very tight. Carry that tool instead of the provided wrench, it is far easier and safer, and shouldn't cost more than 25$.

By writing women, I am alluding to the fact that many of almost 50% of the population might not have the muscle mass and/or biological build to swap out tires. It's not sexist, it's just shorthand for writing all those words. It doesn't make sense to specify older men (or women) as I would think they are generally precluded from conversations about activities requiring physical strength, so it would be superfluous.

Some women are stronger than others, some aren't. But in my experience, women will probably have problems getting a lug nut off that has been tightened too tight with an air tool and/or is rusted. I personally have had problems getting them off, even with a breaker bar, and I wouldn't expect everyone with a car to go out and buy a breaker bar either.

The meat of my comment was that it might be reasonable to expect a large portion of the population to not be able to do what many think are simple routine car repairs, such as brake jobs, and I attempted to prove it by illustrating an example.

Taking my car in for maintenance requires time as well. For most things I'm time ahead doing my own work. I get parts while doing a different errand, so it is comparing time of driving to the mechanic, waiting for the shuttle, the drive to work, and then the reverse on the way home.

Of course I already have nearly all the tools (except every car needs some special tool, so add $15 one time).

I highly doubt most men can take tires off and lift them and put them back on, too.

I thought that was Bloke 101. Actually, the hardest part is getting the lugnuts off. When your tyres were fitted, they likely used air tools to put the nuts back on. I’ve found you always need to ensure you can remove them with the spare hand tool later - otherwise you may end up with a flat somewhere and be unable to remove the wheel.

Air tools should only be used for removal. Using an impact wrench for putting on nuts causes cross threaded and broken studs.

Some shops do it, but you shouldn't go to them.

Yep, I've sheared some tools trying to get them off. Being able to rent a car with air tools would be nice for DIY stuff. It would probably be too expensive insurance wise though.

This is where you put a length of pipe in the car. Much easier, even for women and girls.

All it takes is a couple feet to move the torque required into the lower end of human capability.

If a normal human cannot loosen the lug nuts with the provided wrench, they are on too tight and doing damage.

Agreed, in that the fasteners get stretched, fatigued, difficult to manipulate.

But it still happens. Having a means of greater torque gets past that failure condition and reduces the work burden.

And that's a net good. Older people, young, small, women with nails, guys who may not be very strong, someone hurt or sick all see a much improved task, well in bounds for them.

This is precisely why I brought all my kids up knowing these things. Same for anyone I've helped. I'll leave it with them and just go get another lever. cheap.

Better to be equipped to get this done than be stuck, merely understanding one should not be, but is anyway.

A small extension of this thinking means equipping the vehicle with common sense, useful tools. BMW does this from the factory. Most go unused, but its ultra cheap insurance. May actually end up applying to another vehicle. All good.

It really doesn't take much to equip a vehicle for trouble cases. Anyone who does is likely to get a nice return on that modest investment in skill and gear at some point in their lives. This is true even when their skills are somehow lacking, or they become physically unable somehow.

Getting help means people, and it often means tools. Having both is again, cheap insurance.

Talking about a damaged fastener on your way from the trouble incident is a great problem to have when compared to the side of a road.

No, it is bad because your brake calipers/drums get warped from too much torque.

The fastener problem is real too, but not nearly the potential safety hazard as the damage to the brakes.

Sure, it's bad. But the driver does not know that, may never know that, unless they actually do work on their fasteners. They are not likely to do that work, until they must, and that's on the side of the road.

And, given they must do that work, having the means to complete it makes all the sense in the world.

Nobody has to tighten anything that way. I've never shown, nor recommended people do. It's all about having the means to change a tire, should that need arise. And that means removing the fasteners.

So, I'll tell you what. I'll continue carrying a lever, and will continue to not be stuck somewhere ugly, and you do whatever you want.

Everyone can and should express concern when the job is done poorly.

Nobody should be stuck because it was done poorly, unless they want to be, and I for sure don't. Nor does anyone I know.

I agree that you should have the lever just in case. However if you ever need to use it you should fire the last shop that worked on your tires.

Damn right, unless one lacks strength.

I'm getting older. Can do it. Just don't want to. May not be able one day. There is that too.

Well, maybe not in a timely fashion, and maybe not at all if the shop who put them on really turned the bolts. But in general, I think it's more about leverage than raw strength. Also, a tire isn't that heavy unless we are talking about a non-standard vehicle. And, as a bonus, you actually don't need to lift them all that much... they roll.

Are you kidding?

Serious question. When I raised my kids, boys and girls, all of them changed tires, among other basic car things. And yes, doing an SUV was part of that.

There is skill needed to avoid the most painful lift, but it's not hard to obtain.

I'm 50. Would not think twice about a tire change on any vehicle I drive.

Are we just not teaching people these things anymore?

I've experienced it. A tire on an SUV is like 50lbs. If they've been tightened by a shop with air tools, it can be hard to get the lug nuts off, especially with the tools that come with the car. I've sheared off a bit at the end of a breaker bar because the lugs were so tight.

A car's tire, I can agree that if the lugs are not improperly tightened too much, anyone should be able to do it. But for a full SUV, a 17"+ tire is a bit much to ask a petite woman to handle in my opinion.

That's way too tight! Fortunately, I've not sheared anything.

And it's not an ask on my part. I have shown how it can be done, and whether she does it isn't material. Worst case, she can instruct someone who has strength.

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