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Comment by astannard | Hacker News Reader

I love the idea of eScooters but in the UK they are illegal to use on the road or pavements. Unless the law changes they won't get adopted over here.

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I ride one in London (Soho) and it has never been an issue. You just get off and walk it when you are near people.

It's not an issue until it is, especially regarding insurances. I don't know about the UK but here I'd be worried about my personal liability and any potential incapacity leave/benefits.

Yeah this is certainly a cultural thing. It hadn't even crossed my mind that I would be held accountable for injuring someone on a scooter.

From what I can see, this law hasn't been tested, but given that my scooters max speed is 11mph, I'm not worried about killing someone at the moment.

Well yeah, if you hurt someone, you have to make it right. This has an easy fix, though: Drive safely. You can get insurance (we in Czechia colloquially call it "insurance against dumbness") if you want to, btw.

You can drive safely and still get in a traffic accident, and while you might not be at fault, you weren't supposed to be on the road on a vehicle that has the legal status of a toy, insured or not.

[Speaking about EU] You most probably won't get in any trouble in that case, a moderate fine is the most extreme case, you definitely will not be liable for anything.

I fail to see how you can come to that conclusion.

In the Netherlands, segways are treated like mopeds (and these electrical scooters are quite similar to segways). Which means that you do need moped liability insurance and you cannot use the sidewalk.

If you get involved in an accident with either a pedestrian or a bicycle, then because you are using a motorised vehicle, you are assumed to be liable for the damage even if it is not your fault.

Only if the damage is more than what damage would happen if you were walking and also only if the damage is directly linked with your vehicle. Principle of adequacy. It hugely depends on what kind of segway it is etc.

So, a pedestrian makes an unexpected move where you have priority, the pedestrian falls and needs lengthy recovery.

Then by default you are liable for all of the pedestrian's costs, even if it was not your fault. No ifs. Just any damage that results from the accident.

Citation needed.

That's why e-bikes have been getting more traction.

Unfortunate since the size of a bicycle can be a drawback.

In EU countries they should be classified as light electric vehicle or something like that, along with things like skateboards, rollerblades and “hoverboards”. Hence, allowed basically wherever pedestrians are allowed, unlike the bigger and heavier mopeds and bicycles. At least this has been the case in Finland since the newest Eau directives of the sort were ratified.

Oh right, the mobile app auto-corrected EU to Eau and didn't reply to the context I clicked in. So, any iOS apps to recommend? The "Hacker News" one apparently sucks for commenting.

What is the rationale for the ban?

Chances are they're simply not covered by existing rules and those rules work like a whitelist.

Security, I guess.

I believe it's the same law [1] that also meant the Hoverboards from a few years ago were also illegal to ride on public pavements and roads[2].

[1] http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Will4/5-6/50/section/72

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/12/uk-hoverboar...

Same reason Segways were never really allowed here, AFAICT. You can ride any/all of these things on private land, just not on public highways or pavement.

As far as I can tell, it's not so much a ban as that the current legislation just doesn't fit them. They don't fit into the existing category of "electrically assisted pedal cycle" and they don't meet the requirements of road vehicles.

Legislation needs to catch up. There is a European effort underway to create safety requirements and test methods for Personal Light Electric Vehicles that would seem like a good start [1]. Maybe we'll leave the EU just in time to not get the benefit :)

[1] https://www.din.de/en/getting-involved/standards-committees/...

None, it's not a deliberate ban, it's simply not listed as allowed because no one considered it when the law was created and no one has bothered to (or was able to) change it.

An alternative possibility is that they actually do fit an existing category (some kind of moped) but fail to meet the safety standards of that category.

Here is an article though it gives no rationale. I think ebikes are allowed on roads as they are pedal assisted. Bikes that don't require you to pedal are in a grey area. Since eScotters have no pedals they are not legal on the roads http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5271874.stm

I don't think there is a rationale; they just haven't updated the law recently. In their defence, they do also have things like Brexit to worry about.

Apparently it is currently unclear even whether and where roller skates are legal, and it is occasionally claimed that wheeled bins are technically illegal on pavements, even though they are provided by local authorities and people are expected to put them in front of their houses on bin days.

Of course, it's unlikely you'll be stopped by the police for using an electric scooter in a considerate way. But the lack of official approval is bound to prevent widespread use.

Meanwhile, feral youths, without helmets, ride unlicensed, uninsured pit bikes across roads, pavements and other people's private land and the police have no resources to do anything about it. On the other hand, a middle-class middle-aged gentleman on a scooter would be much easier to catch, so do be a bit careful if you decide to defy the law. If you see the cops coming, run for it. They almost certainly won't shoot you.

Basically "we don't want to be accused of not protecting people from their own stupidity"

When you talk about electric bikes and scooters the picture formed in the heads of the people who run nanny-states looks a lot like mopeds in Dehli.

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