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Comment by yjftsjthsd-h | Hacker News Reader

That's true. So why is it that 7 was so much more stable? Certainly at first I could say that it's just because 7 has been around for eons and 10 is brand new, but it's been out for years now and we're still seeing things break (anecdotally, r/sysadmin was emphatically not happy with the last couple of updates). Is it this thing where they've declared 10 to be the last version and so what we're seeing is major updates that would have been 11, 12, etc. including all the growing pains of a new release? Is it because Microsoft decided to throw out their entire QA division? I'm happy to agree that Microsoft has an extraordinary large problem space across which they try to maintain stability, but that doesn't seem to explain why they would have gotten worse at it.

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I'm almost permanently ready to ditch Windows for good and move to MacOS and Linux. And I've been a Windows user since 3.1.

If we're really moving to the equivalent of Windows 11 and 12, I must ask: who is paying for these releases (besides OEMs with new hardware)?

I'm not paying the upgrade fee I paid for 98, XP, and 7 on old hardware. Microsoft is obviously not a charity and their devs don't work for free, and they have to recoup their costs and more.

But telemetry, tie-ins to other MS products like XBox, media subscriptions, Azure and Office 365, and even advertising on my desktop, along with now being volunteered by Microsoft to take on their QA as they force-install beta software on my PCs are NOT things I'm willing to exchange for the former $100 upgrade costs I've always willingly paid previously and made them a very profitable company.

In other words, each newer update brings fewer features I want as a paying user, and more and more anti-features I'm not willing to trade for my privacy, time, and attention.

The fact that they have to nerve to explicitly reset, upon each update, the settings that took me hours to find and apply - turning off Cortana, the telemetry (the most I can, anyway), all the privacy-invading phone / tablet features, the demands to sign-in to MS account, etc - pisses me off and makes it easier to swallow the issues with Linux and the absurb prices Apple charges.

Apple does charge absurd prices but their machines are very long-lasting and robust. Go to a service shop once a year for a full dust cleanup and maybe change of the thermal paste once every 2 years, and your MacBook can hum along for 7-10 years in total, easily.

I am gathering money to buy the maxed out iMac Pro (~$13,100) but in the meantime I have nothing bad to say about the MBP 2015. Occasional stupid bugs do occur of course, like in any OS, but rarer than on my Windows 10 PC, and a restart fixes things which usually never resurface again.

So yes they are expensive. I was a Linux/Windows and Android advocate most of my life but eventually conceded that Apple is simply much more comfortable, predictable and ergonomic (their displays don't tire my eyes as any other display I tried, including gaming displays with 144-200Hz refresh rate) and that I have better things to do with my life than to always do the OS authors' work for them. Much bonus points to them for actual privacy as well.

I just bought my first (non work provided) MBP - a 2015 for about $1750. I can't even use Linux or Windows anymore these things are so nice!

You're saying I should go to an authorized Apple shop and have them crack it open to dust it out and change thermal paste?

I've always had Thinkpads and Dells which are servicable, and I do spray compressed air on the inside every few years, but have never re-applied thermal paste.

You do this on your MBPs? How much will it cost every few years, and also should I bother with Apple care? Right now I've only the one year warranty.

Only go to authorized Apple shops while inside warranty IMO. There are plenty of technicians out there who will open your MacBook and clean it up for the time you will drink a coffee.

As for the MBP 2015, many users have reported that the thermal paste Apple puts in it in the factory is not optimal and they achieved 4-7 degress less sustained temperature by using a better one. I am attempting to do that soon.

As for air sprays, DEFINITELY DO NOT THAT. MacBooks are crazy packed on the inside, it's very risky in my opinion. Cleaning it from dust once or twice a year is extremely cheap around here in Bulgaria -- they charge me 20 EUR if they are grumpy. (Mine is out of warranty however, I bought it refurbished from a colleague.) Authorized Apple shops might charge times more though, I haven't asked and I don't know.

And finally, replacing the thermal paste is also an extremely quick process. A good technician does it for 30 to 45 minutes and a paste costing no more than 20-25 EUR can be at the top of its game for 2 years or more, depending on usage.

All in all, I plan to de-dust the laptop in a service shop once a year, and change thermal paste if I notice an increased sustained temperature. (Definitely buy iStat Menus, it gives you tons of diagnostic info right on your menu bar.)

Hope that helps.

Thanks a lot. I will definitely do a little research on the thermal issue. I was hesitant to buy this as it's about 2x as much for what I usually pay for laptops, and it's also very bad specs for a 'new' computer. But they are so much better than Windows and Linux.

My MBP 2015 definitely runs everything faster than my very solid gaming and development PC. Granted it has a newer i7 but it can't be only that; the difference overall is big.

You have mostly disregarded the quality of the software which this discussion is focused on. Are you running Windows on your Mac? Apple's software quality isn't all that great either, they have had constant glitches the last couple releases.

No, I only use macOS on my MBP 2015.

As for the builtin software's quality, I agree it's not stellar -- and the App Store on macOS is a relic from the past that's way beyond its lifetime and needs urgent rework.

That being said, the OS itself is crazy stable for me and the occasional glitches appear only once or twice. Not sure how you got so unlucky, sorry about that.

And finally, I was able to find software for absolutely everything I need, in every single user or programming area. Granted I am not a researcher that has to maintain 50+ installed runtimes and compilers but I code in several languages and use several different databases and I haven't stumbled upon a single issue there.

> who is paying for these releases > But telemetry, tie-ins to other MS products like XBox, media subscriptions, Azure and Office 365

Not so much telemetry and tie ins, but enterprise users of Azure, 365 and CAL licensed products like Exchange and RDS. Perhaps if they can charge me £1,000 a month for my office users, then they are not so bothered about the cost of making the OS?

macOS is no better. It's getting worse too, High Sierra has been a clusterfuck all around.

But unless things changed quite a bit (I am still on 10.11.6) doesn't Apple always give you the option to update or not update MacOS? Even with iOS it's a positive action, you have to click something to update, no? I am fine with that, I just want to do the updates on my schedule, not Apples and Microsoft's. On macOS I have a lot of dev stuff setup and I would be pretty pissed if it did an update without me specifically and affirmatively concerning to it.

Any examples? I do programming on my MacBook Pro 2015 with several databases and 10+ language runtimes installed and very rarely had any issue at all.

> so what we're seeing is major updates that would have been 11, 12,

I think you are spot on with this, MS have pushed some really major updates, which would at least have been a service pack in the past, if not a new version. Not least I believe they have made some breaking changes to the update process which should do away with the enforced restarts in future

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