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Comment by sddfd | Hacker News Reader

I'm running two machines (a recent laptop and an older desktop with Windows 10). I've wiped both drives and did a fresh install of a recent Windows 10 vom USB Stick.

I haven't had any problems updating and even big updates are fast. This is in contrast to a Dell laptop I got for work and which regularily took 45min to update.

If you have problems with your Windows 10, get rid of the crapware that came with your PC and/or do a fresh install from a clean image from MS (not one of the OEM rescue partitions/disks).

I with MS would do something about all the preinstalled crapware, because it has gotten out of hand and is hurting the brand.

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Agreed. Following random internet articles to disable Windows Updates is not a good advise. That same user might in a future post complain that a security issues aren't fixed, even though updates were explicitly disabled... My personal experience is that I had no issues updating multiple machines. Advise: Don't follow and change random registry keys and other things based on Google searches - it might become a problem in the future.

Well, Windows 10 1803 update is a problem NOW. I'll take future problems over current problems. Also, disabling update service is a perfectly legitimate way to stop the updates from coming in. You can always turn it back on and control the update process manually, when you are good and ready, and have your HD backed up. You can do so on your schedule, not when MS chooses to spring it on you.

Exactly. And if Microsoft doesn't like users disabling updates, maybe it should stop releasing updates that break stuff.

That is really easy for Apple to do, with a limited range of hardware they can literally test every device that is receiving the update. Much harder for Microsoft, who are trying to support a vast range of hardware.

That's true. So why is it that 7 was so much more stable? Certainly at first I could say that it's just because 7 has been around for eons and 10 is brand new, but it's been out for years now and we're still seeing things break (anecdotally, r/sysadmin was emphatically not happy with the last couple of updates). Is it this thing where they've declared 10 to be the last version and so what we're seeing is major updates that would have been 11, 12, etc. including all the growing pains of a new release? Is it because Microsoft decided to throw out their entire QA division? I'm happy to agree that Microsoft has an extraordinary large problem space across which they try to maintain stability, but that doesn't seem to explain why they would have gotten worse at it.

I'm almost permanently ready to ditch Windows for good and move to MacOS and Linux. And I've been a Windows user since 3.1.

If we're really moving to the equivalent of Windows 11 and 12, I must ask: who is paying for these releases (besides OEMs with new hardware)?

I'm not paying the upgrade fee I paid for 98, XP, and 7 on old hardware. Microsoft is obviously not a charity and their devs don't work for free, and they have to recoup their costs and more.

But telemetry, tie-ins to other MS products like XBox, media subscriptions, Azure and Office 365, and even advertising on my desktop, along with now being volunteered by Microsoft to take on their QA as they force-install beta software on my PCs are NOT things I'm willing to exchange for the former $100 upgrade costs I've always willingly paid previously and made them a very profitable company.

In other words, each newer update brings fewer features I want as a paying user, and more and more anti-features I'm not willing to trade for my privacy, time, and attention.

The fact that they have to nerve to explicitly reset, upon each update, the settings that took me hours to find and apply - turning off Cortana, the telemetry (the most I can, anyway), all the privacy-invading phone / tablet features, the demands to sign-in to MS account, etc - pisses me off and makes it easier to swallow the issues with Linux and the absurb prices Apple charges.

macOS is no better. It's getting worse too, High Sierra has been a clusterfuck all around.

Any examples? I do programming on my MacBook Pro 2015 with several databases and 10+ language runtimes installed and very rarely had any issue at all.

But unless things changed quite a bit (I am still on 10.11.6) doesn't Apple always give you the option to update or not update MacOS? Even with iOS it's a positive action, you have to click something to update, no? I am fine with that, I just want to do the updates on my schedule, not Apples and Microsoft's. On macOS I have a lot of dev stuff setup and I would be pretty pissed if it did an update without me specifically and affirmatively concerning to it.

Apple does charge absurd prices but their machines are very long-lasting and robust. Go to a service shop once a year for a full dust cleanup and maybe change of the thermal paste once every 2 years, and your MacBook can hum along for 7-10 years in total, easily.

I am gathering money to buy the maxed out iMac Pro (~$13,100) but in the meantime I have nothing bad to say about the MBP 2015. Occasional stupid bugs do occur of course, like in any OS, but rarer than on my Windows 10 PC, and a restart fixes things which usually never resurface again.

So yes they are expensive. I was a Linux/Windows and Android advocate most of my life but eventually conceded that Apple is simply much more comfortable, predictable and ergonomic (their displays don't tire my eyes as any other display I tried, including gaming displays with 144-200Hz refresh rate) and that I have better things to do with my life than to always do the OS authors' work for them. Much bonus points to them for actual privacy as well.

You have mostly disregarded the quality of the software which this discussion is focused on. Are you running Windows on your Mac? Apple's software quality isn't all that great either, they have had constant glitches the last couple releases.

No, I only use macOS on my MBP 2015.

As for the builtin software's quality, I agree it's not stellar -- and the App Store on macOS is a relic from the past that's way beyond its lifetime and needs urgent rework.

That being said, the OS itself is crazy stable for me and the occasional glitches appear only once or twice. Not sure how you got so unlucky, sorry about that.

And finally, I was able to find software for absolutely everything I need, in every single user or programming area. Granted I am not a researcher that has to maintain 50+ installed runtimes and compilers but I code in several languages and use several different databases and I haven't stumbled upon a single issue there.

I just bought my first (non work provided) MBP - a 2015 for about $1750. I can't even use Linux or Windows anymore these things are so nice!

You're saying I should go to an authorized Apple shop and have them crack it open to dust it out and change thermal paste?

I've always had Thinkpads and Dells which are servicable, and I do spray compressed air on the inside every few years, but have never re-applied thermal paste.

You do this on your MBPs? How much will it cost every few years, and also should I bother with Apple care? Right now I've only the one year warranty.

Only go to authorized Apple shops while inside warranty IMO. There are plenty of technicians out there who will open your MacBook and clean it up for the time you will drink a coffee.

As for the MBP 2015, many users have reported that the thermal paste Apple puts in it in the factory is not optimal and they achieved 4-7 degress less sustained temperature by using a better one. I am attempting to do that soon.

As for air sprays, DEFINITELY DO NOT THAT. MacBooks are crazy packed on the inside, it's very risky in my opinion. Cleaning it from dust once or twice a year is extremely cheap around here in Bulgaria -- they charge me 20 EUR if they are grumpy. (Mine is out of warranty however, I bought it refurbished from a colleague.) Authorized Apple shops might charge times more though, I haven't asked and I don't know.

And finally, replacing the thermal paste is also an extremely quick process. A good technician does it for 30 to 45 minutes and a paste costing no more than 20-25 EUR can be at the top of its game for 2 years or more, depending on usage.

All in all, I plan to de-dust the laptop in a service shop once a year, and change thermal paste if I notice an increased sustained temperature. (Definitely buy iStat Menus, it gives you tons of diagnostic info right on your menu bar.)

Hope that helps.

Thanks a lot. I will definitely do a little research on the thermal issue. I was hesitant to buy this as it's about 2x as much for what I usually pay for laptops, and it's also very bad specs for a 'new' computer. But they are so much better than Windows and Linux.

My MBP 2015 definitely runs everything faster than my very solid gaming and development PC. Granted it has a newer i7 but it can't be only that; the difference overall is big.

> who is paying for these releases > But telemetry, tie-ins to other MS products like XBox, media subscriptions, Azure and Office 365

Not so much telemetry and tie ins, but enterprise users of Azure, 365 and CAL licensed products like Exchange and RDS. Perhaps if they can charge me £1,000 a month for my office users, then they are not so bothered about the cost of making the OS?

> so what we're seeing is major updates that would have been 11, 12,

I think you are spot on with this, MS have pushed some really major updates, which would at least have been a service pack in the past, if not a new version. Not least I believe they have made some breaking changes to the update process which should do away with the enforced restarts in future

You should schedule backups first (if you have not already) I have 2 live backups of my primary computer, a dell laptop. One to a separate HDD installed in it and one to the cloud. I have windows file history configured to copy file changes to the HDD on an hourly basis too. I don't use 3rd party crap-ware such as 'anti-viruses' and use non installer versions of software when possible and open-source over closed. I do not trust 3rd party code/installers and use windows defender + uBlock origin + common sense as my first line of defense. So far no updates have ever broken my PC since I got it. Even if my SSD was to die or the windows install to become unrecoverable, all I will have to do after a clean Install is copy over my backup of extracted programs to the SSD root and reconfigure the path (I should write a script for that too). Their are so many other advantages to this setup but this comment is already too long for that.

I hope microsoft is at least paying well to fight any software resistance. These people are one terminal away from installing free software and doing there own decisions - often with good reason. This has to be stopped!

Labrat uprising in cage seven! Labrat uprising in cage seven! All personal with syringes report immediatly!

I have to second this. Microsoft even has a tool to build the latest release onto a USB stick, which for me was the first time I have installed Windows and not had to wait for any updates at all.

I had a couple of PC's which were upgraded from earlier versions of Windows when it was free. Installing from USB sure did free up a lot of disk space!

Licensing headaches seem to have gone away too. I did one fresh install onto a different hard-drive and it just worked.

There seems to be one Windows 10 update which forces a reboot, and then it never happens again. If you build your USB today I donlt think you will suffer that.

Putting that aside this article misses one important point. Windows 10 is extremely backwardly compatible with earlier versions. At the day job we have a number of legacy apps, things built in VB6 for instance, and they worked first time on Windows 10. To be clear, we are talking about applications written around 20 years ago, which are still working on Windows 10. I don't run any Apple devices anymore but it certainly wasn't my experience that Apple cared about backwards compatibility back then.

RE: same old regedit etc. The enterprise admins I know seem extremely pleased to see these old faithfuls in place. Where Windows 10 has added a new way of doing something (like the new control panel), it is very heartening to find the familiar old version running alongside.

I think it is fair to say that enterprise loved XP, hated Vista, liked 7, hated 8 and tolerated 8.1. Enterprise seems very happy with Windows 10 so far.

There was no crapware on my Surface Pro (mostly MS Store apps), and I also experienced issues, like this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/8g73kb/is_it_how...

I still have the following issue, even though I never installed an insider build on this machine.

https://wccftech.com/windows-10-1803-rtm-candidate-bug/

Seconded on the reinstall by downloading the latest Windows 10 installation onto a USB stick.

Wayyyy faster than trying to restore from factory image.

On different laptops attempting to restore from factory image has failed, or taken more than overnight to get to current version.

So far I have had 100% success fixing Windows update issues by doing a clean install from the latest Microsoft ISO.

Yep.

I upgraded to 18.03 about an hour after it was live. It was a very fast and painless upgrade on a ~4 year old workstation (parted out by pieces). I was running 17.09 Pro edition prior to 18.03.

Best I can tell the Dell image for XPS 9550 is just Windows 10 with minimal drivers. I think I'll try the fresh Microsoft Windows route, but I want to mirror the drive first, because I don't want to install windows all over again and set up all my apps if it doesn't work. What's a good alternative to something like Carbon Copy Cloner for Windows? I used to use Ghost, but that was a decade ago.

Live boot linux and use dd

That is extremely good advice.

I'll give that a shot, that should work, theoretically. I don't really know all the ins and outs of the new secure boot stuff on windows, would have to read up on that. But theoretically that should work.

ubuntu works fine with secure boot

> Best I can tell the Dell image for XPS 9550 is just Windows 10 with minimal drivers.

I've worked in an IT shop before. Even if the image is just Windows 10 with included drivers, those drivers can include bundled programs and bloatware themselves. I used a Dell laptop in the past with Windows 8 that had a trackpad application which had to autostart and run in the background for the trackpad to work properly. No matter what, that program was guaranteed to be using at least 50MB of RAM. Upon upgrading to 8.1, I had a bunch of OS errors. Turns out, uninstalling and reinstalling the trackpad driver fixed the problem.

OEM drivers aren't just the drivers themselves, but often instead an entire suite of programs that bloat your system and interfere with Windows' ability to take care of itself.

DriveImage XML[1] always worked the few times I needed it, and you can create the image while booted in to windows.

[1]: https://www.runtime.org/driveimage-xml.htm

I installed Windows on my laptop last year from a presumably-unmolested ISO I got from MSDN - and it took it 10+ goes, at one attempt per week or two, to update to 1709.

What about the activation? Would Windows recognize the device automatically and not ask for a key?

Keys are stored in the firmware on the motherboard. Shouldn't be an issue.

Yes, it did on the desktop. I did buy a professional licence for the laptop though (it came with home).

8.1 and newer devices have the key in firmware, and PCs upgraded from older versions of Windows are recognized automatically by the activation servers. So in most cases if a PC has ever had Windows 10 on it before, you can just install without a product key and it will activate itself.

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