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Comment by lkrubner | Hacker News Reader

I don't know if it's a matter of the protagonist looking cool. When Breaking Bad was on the air, I had a surprising number of friends who identified with Walter White. He did not look cool, he did not act cool, and the writers of the show did everything in their power to communicate "This man is a moral monster and a horror of a human being." Yet some people that I otherwise respected still identified with him. They would get angry at Skyler White for leaving her husband, as if the mother of a new baby should stay loyal to a drug dealing serial killer.

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The interesting realisation for me about Walter White came when I started watching the season through for a second time.

But first... SPOILER ALERT!

I mean the first time around I had some sympathy for the guy - he was a disappointed and somewhat embittered middle aged man still trying to do his best to support his family, and then he's given this crappy cancer diagnosis. I felt bad for him. Fair to say that by the time he just lets Jesse's girlfriend, Jane, choke to death on her own vomit whilst unconscious I'd entirely lost that and felt nothing but loathing for the character (which isn't to say I didn't enjoy the show, or think he was a great character).

But what I realised on revisiting the show a couple of years later is that Walter White didn't break bad. He was bad from the very beginning. I mean look at the way he interacts with people in the early episodes of season 1: he's largely an asshole. The only thing that changes is that, initially because he's driven to, he becomes much more comfortable with manifesting his assholery overtly.

> Fair to say that by the time he just lets Jesse's girlfriend, Jane, choke to death on her own vomit whilst unconscious I'd entirely lost that and felt nothing but loathing for the character

> But what I realised on revisiting the show a couple of years later is that Walter White didn't break bad. He was bad from the very beginning.

Jesse's girlfriend got him hooked on heroin. Jesse was on a downward spiral and would surely die thanks to her continued interference. Walter saw the toxicity of both the drugs and the relationship and did Jesse a cruel but necessary kindness by letting her asphyxiate. It wasn't ethical, it wasn't humane, but it served a greater purpose (even if it was so Walter wouldn't be without an assistant).

He did far worse deeds for less grounded reasons as the series went on; there are better examples to choose from to make a case of villainy. If anything, what changes through the series is his disconnectedness from everything he was fighting for. As he lost his son's respect, his wife, his family, and his friend, his world became significantly more introverted and he was willing to tolerate greater and greater amounts of collateral damage in the interest of his own survival (since he had nothing left to care about but himself until the ending).

SPOILERS

It's a great show, and I agree with a lot of what you're saying.

> Jesse's girlfriend got him hooked on heroin. Jesse was on a downward spiral and would surely die thanks to her continued interference.

Jesse was on a downward spiral, yes, but the other two points are less clear. They might be true from Walt's perspective.

> Walter saw the toxicity of both the drugs and the relationship and did Jesse a cruel but necessary kindness by letting her asphyxiate. It wasn't ethical, it wasn't humane, but it served a greater purpose (even if it was so Walter wouldn't be without an assistant).

It's impossible to tell how much Walt's letting Jane die / killing Jane had to do with helping Jesse. I think it's clearer Walt killed Jane to keep control over Jesse and to protect himself. And that worked out pretty well, for a while. Jane didn't fear Walt, and she knew too much about him for Walt's comfort and safety. So he let her die / killed her.

> He did far worse deeds for less grounded reasons as the series went on; there are better examples to choose from to make a case of villainy.

This is true. For me, Jane's death caused a major nosedive in sympathy for Walt. Definitely previous things he did were villainous and later things even more so. But there was something about Jane's death. A big step down in his descent.

>necessary kindness by letting her asphyxiate. It wasn't ethical, it wasn't humane, but it served a greater purpose

that is exactly the issue - for him ends justify the means. That is his main, core, villainy.

>what changes through the series is his disconnectedness from everything he was fighting for.

natural result as evil means hollow out whatever ends he wanted to reach.

I think that's right. I recently heard someone argue "Power doesn't corrupt, but rather it reveals who you really are." I think that applies to Walter White. He was morally corrupt from the start, but that became more obvious as he gained money/power.

I think it was Michael Irvin who said something similar when he was talking about how people say, "Money CAN buy you happiness." He said no, it just makes you more of what you already are.

If you're a huge asshole before you got rich, now you're just a rich asshole. If you're an empathetic, kind person, before you got rich, now you're just a rich, kind person. He also lamented society benefits more from the latter than the former for obvious reasons.

Very much. I watched the show for the first time by "binging" the first four seasons, just ahead of the season 5 premiere, so I went in already having heard all the buzz about the showing being "Mr. Chips to Scarface." By episode 2 or 3 I was already thinking he was always Scarface.

I saw Walter in the beginning as someone who had no control of their life (even in his choice of how to die/reject treatment).

He slowly gains this confidence and control. He goes from being talked down to and ignored to being powerful (though at massive cost), but there's something appealing to that story of taking control. There's also an element of masculinity tied up in this too - when he stomps on the bully's leg in the clothing store early on. I think it's just being the alpha monkey.

Skyler was pretty controlling and self-righteous, I found her to be a pretty unlikable character. She cheats on Walt primarily to hurt him and she was also hypocritical, breaking the law for Ted when it suited her and helping with the money laundering without taking accountability for anything.

Walt at least (early on) started with the goal of raising money to leave his family - though this obviously mutates pretty quickly.

  the writers of the show did everything in their 
  power to communicate "This man is a moral monster 
  and a horror of a human being."

No they didn't. No they didn't. No they didn't.

The qualifiers of his moral character only took on darker notes toward the end of the series, near the fifth and sixth season. But remained justifiable, within the context of the fatalistic continuity of the series, where characters are left with limited options, granted the hand they are dealt.

Throughout the rest of the series, Walter White is as laughable as any petulant straight man in a comedic duo (e.g. the Hardy role of Laurel and Hardy, Larry Appleton from Perfect Strangers, the Moe of the 3 stooges), while Jesse Pinkman plays the foil.

As a comedic duo, the two are rendered harmless, and thus, any morality is diffused by the beat of each joke, within the care free scope of a goof. It's all gallows humor, with a wink, shrug and a nod that everyone's hands were tied, so just go with the flow and enjoy the ride.

In the case of Walter White, I think it's a slightly different phenomenon: the wish-fulfillment fantasy of the tortured genius who is allowed to be a snarky misanthrope because he's so brilliant. There have been a whole bunch of (usually male) protagonists like this, especially recently: Walter White, Don Draper, Dr. House, Rick Sanchez... I'm sure you can fill in plenty more examples.

> He did not look cool, he did not act cool, and the writers of the show did everything in their power to communicate "This man is a moral monster and a horror of a human being." Yet some people that I otherwise respected still identified with him.

That's because nobody starts watching from the later seasons, they start watching from season one. In the beginning, Walter White is an overqualified for his work, struggling to support his family on a meager teacher's salary, and then a cancer diagnosis kicks in. Everybody identifies with him because most of us feel like we struggle with unfulfilling work and with money issues, and then the cancer diagnosis is the cherry on top - how can you judge somebody who's put in that position? Who will leave his wife saddled with debt and put in charge of raising her kids alone?

Breaking Bad reminds us that in human psychology, first impressions have outsize influence over our perceptions of other people. Battered women stay with their husbands because they still see the caring individual their husbands were when they were first dating, and hold onto hope that somewhere, their husband is still that person; if their husbands were originally abusive in the first set of dates they never would have stuck around.

I think a big part is the emotions surrounding the combined feeling of thinking you're smarter than the rest while being stuck at a lower station in life. Unfairness compounded by the one thinking they're smarter so it's even more unfair. 'I'm smarter than this guy, why is he rich'

It's very easy to fall into this mindset and I think a lot of people identified.

Oh that really depends on which season. The brilliance of that story was how he evolved into the moral monster from someone who was morally unassailable. Could it happen to you? To me? What are our limits, and where is the tipping point of no return once we start down the path?

I think he had tons of charisma and that is why people like him. Most people like actors who are the strong, silent type with good looks. That's why that type is in almost every action movie and TV show.

The actress playing Heisenberg's wife was so good portraying depression and melancholy I disliked her too.

The dinner scene with her, Heisenberg and Jessie makes up for it though.

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