Hacker News Reader

Some frameworks however are much better at forcing you to make good design decisions.

PHP is absolute garbage at that for example.

I agree some frameworks enforce good design decision but none can guarantee it. That's my argument here.

There are good frameworks in PHP too and not all PHP code is garbage.

PHP is a language, not a framework.

A language is a framework, just even bigger ;)

Hell, some frameworks even come with their own (DS)Language