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Comment by jandrese | Hacker News Reader

IMHO this is more correct than you give it credit for. Humans need to feel a sense of accomplishment to maintain their mental health over the long term. Just giving them money to survive without giving them something to do leads to high rates of depression and self destructive behavior. A good percentage of the population is not self starters, they'll sit on their ass all day long if nobody forces them to get up.

IMHO New Deal type projects are a better use of resources than UBI. Put people to work building/repairing infrastructure instead of just handing them cash and hoping they don't just spend it on drugs.

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I'm not sure what a good percentage is but I know the majority of the population is self-motivated. What that motivation is can very greatly and is affected by resources. I've sat on my ass plenty of times and watched TV simply because I didn't have the money to go anywhere.

Will there people who abuse that goodwill? There is in almost every system. Just like you can't design the perfect lock to keep all thieves out and still be useful you can't design a UBI where everyone is going to use the money as we judge best.

A new New Deal I think should cover more than just infrastructure. There are public works of art that we have now that would not exist if not for the fact that some administrator in the New Deal era thought having artwork was also important.

Maybe, but I've done charity work in south West Virginia and welfare depression is a serious issue in former coal country. You want to see the people do just anything but they've lost all motivation. It's not everybody, but it's a big enough percentage of the population to cause a lot of problems.

Is there any avenue for investment and personal growth for the majority people in coal country, let alone those on long term welfare? I ask because a wealthy friend sends a substantial amount of money home to relatives in WV ($2k per person or so) and even though they save quite a bit, there is nothing for them to do with that money other than move out to a more economically active area if they want to improve their lives. Starting a business or getting an education is pointless because there's no market for anything but the bare necessities. They even had trouble finding good local caterers, photographers, and a wedding planner even though they had saved up enough money to cover a decent wedding in an urban city.

Basic income at least has the ability to thrust everyone in a region into the market by giving them disposable income so that there is actual activity that can provide opportunities.

State level welfare is not UBI.

For almost every state youll get 200 dollars in EBT/person. These are nontranferable, you must only buy unprepared food, etc. Yes, even now people abuse this. You cannot make a perfect lock.

If you have a kid you also get a bit of cash aid (less than 200 dollars.)

Try living on 400 bucks for the next month or 12 and see how depressed it will make you.

> I'm not sure what a good percentage is but I know the majority of the population is self-motivated.

This is simply totally incorrect.

If it was close to true we wouldn't need schools or universities. Everyone could self learn through books.

Even MOOCs can't yet work out the motivation issues with drop out rates of 90%

I will concur with this based on my own anecdotal evidence. I know someone who has a good paying job that gives them nothing to do and they have struggled with depression ever since taking the position.

There is a key difference here between your friend's job and UBI. If your friend instead of having their job got UBI they would still be able to go and find fullfilment in the workforce and bolster what they recieve from UBI with a salary.

In the scenario you mentioned they are probably locked in by way of a contract from being able to find fillfilment unless they do it in their, probably small, amount of personal time.

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