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Comment by oldcynic | Hacker News Reader

> Pro edition ... Of course they collect data

There's something fundamentally wrong with that to my mind, given how the Pro release of Windows has always been placed.

I should not need to get an Enterprise release to be able to manage my own machine, restrict the phoning home, and control other basic features of my machine used in a professional context. I've no need of 101 features for managing 1,000 desktops and neither have many smaller businesses who are also now landed with "Xbox OS for PCs".

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I was under the impression you can disable all of the telemetry. Is that not the case ?

And Pro really refers to Prosumer not Professional.

According to blog posts and articles on tech sites there still is no way to disable all telemetry on windows 10. I don’t use windows for a long time now so I cannot tell myself.

Anyhow, it is /not/ ok for an OS to spy on their users by default - even if you can disable it manually.

By the way, is there a list of things that Windows collects about computer/user activity?

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/windo...

wow - that is comprehensive and terrifying.

I skimmed the list and these particular ones jumped out at me:

> Movies > URL for a specific two-second chunk of content if there is an error

> Music & TV > Service URL for song being downloaded from the music service -- collected when an error occurs to facilitate restoration of service

> Photos App > File source data -- local, SD card, network device, and OneDrive

That's only when you have it set to Full level, which is not the same as Basic level, which is pretty harmless.

Even though the "basic" telemetry data is quite the list [0], I agree that it's not nearly as intrusive as the "full" set.

> only when you have it set to Full level "you" (probably any users) won't set the level to "full"; this is the default setting (source [1]). MS only offers "basic" as opt-out (which it really is not).

[0] - https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/basic...

[1] - https://www.ghacks.net/2018/03/12/configure-telemetry-window...

update: formatting

-Everything

before anyone else downvotes the parent, take a look at the URL in the sibling comment about what is captured.

they're capturing more data about you than you probably realise exists to be captured.

That's only when you have it set to Full level, which is not the same as Basic level, which is pretty harmless.

Even on Enterprise you can't disable all telemetry.

See https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/confi....

According to my pihole, with every telemetry option turned off, it stills tries to phone home hundreds of times per day.

You sure it's not checking for updates?

No, updates work fine. Some blocked domains : settings-win.data.microsoft.com, v10.vortex-win.data.microsoft.com, mobile.pipe.aria.microsoft.com, nexusrules.officeapps.live.com

Really making me want to setup PiHole now... any tips on what to block?

This is my /etc/pihole/adlists.list https://pastebin.com/ssqea2nW

You can't. It still phones home a lot, even at the lowest telemetry settings. The only edition where you can disable it is LTSB and even there it is hidden in Local Group Policy Editor.

No you can turn it down from 11 to 5 basically.

No it really doesn't.

Microsoft have marketed it to business and portrayed it as intended for professional business use ever since XP introduced the version split. Until large enough to be allowed near volume licensing SKUs, when you pass some point past a hundred seats, it's the most professional offering a business can get.

That covers nearly all small and medium businesses.

Ah, well, as long as we can redefine previously understood terms to mean something different, I guess all's fair.

It gathers a lot of info and transfers it to vast number of domains under Microsoft control:

http://www.pcministry.com/win10_telemetry/summary_stats_and_...

How much did you pay for Windows 10?

Do I, as a single person, have the option of buying a non-spyware version of windows 10? I paid $175 for windows 7... I'd pay $300 for a non-spyware version of windows but I don't think I can even buy solo windows 10 enterprise.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/WindowsForBusiness/windows-p...

Nope.. I can buy pro but I can only try enterprise.

You could buy a VS premium license with MSDN. Or would you still consider that "trying"?

Does the VS premium get me the OS?

The MSDN subscription gets you licenses for almost all MS software, including their OSes.

Same as with previous releases: an unknown, invisible, price because it generally comes with the machine. Choose Win x Pro if you want a more "corporate" laptop and get features to connect to the work network, Bitlocker and so on.

As far as I am aware the pitch has not changed - Pro is for for a business environment, Enterprise if you're in need of centralised management of an estate of machines. So no, Pro should not be taking liberties.

So now to be treated professionally I need to buy a laptop with Win 10 Pro and buy Win 10 again to reinstall it / upgrade it with Win 10 LTS? Can you even buy a single copy?

My windows 10 Pro cost me $270 when I got it on christmas sale.

I can't disable debug telemetry or cortona. If I set the options to via admin (or even safe mode) via registry edits. After a reboot I'll find them back on.

$270 USD? That can't be right. Full retail price is only $199. Amazon and Newegg both sell Windows 10 Pro retail download for $189, and Windows 10 Pro 64 bit System Builder OEM disc for $143. These aren't sale prices, just regular prices.

Not the grandparent, but in the Netherlands it is 259€ ( https://www.microsoft.com/nl-nl/store/d/windows-10-pro/df77x.... ) that is 317USD in the conversion, so that sounds about right when you don't live in the US.

Of course, these European prices already include sales tax, which the US prices don't, but even then it would still be ~250USD without BTW.

So 270USD on sale sounds like a decent savings!

Windows 10 Pro is 1899DKK from Microsoft, that's 315USD. Home is cheaper, at 1099 (180USD).

In the Netherlands it is 259€ ( https://www.microsoft.com/nl-nl/store/d/windows-10-pro/df77x... ) that is 317USD in the conversion, so that sounds about right when you don't live in the US.

Of course, these European prices already include sales tax, which the US prices don't, but even then it would still be ~250USD without BTW.

I have to wonder if the EU prices include the cost of doing business in the EU. Like paying the big EU fines.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/d/windows-10-pro/df77x...

I see $200USD

You can disable Cortana in every version of Windows 10 from regular settings, and it even asks you upon install.

Telemetry can be set to basic in settings too, which is harmless, and it also asks you upon install.

Maybe you know this already but here's some friendly advice: You're not going to get anywhere defending Windows or Microsoft against the HN crowd.

Most of them live in a bubble and it's just not cool to use Windows or Microsoft products...so even when you're right, which you are, the most you can hope for is that they'll ignore your comment instead of spouting off some ridiculous nonsense that they actually have no clue about. And then they turn around and pimp Apple, the most controlling, selfish enemy of personal freedom with the shittiest software that you can imagine.

It's kinda hilarious to watch though.

I don't care if "Basic" setting sends harmless information. I don't want to send ANYTHING. It's my computer, I paid for it, I paid for this system and I want full control.

Full disclosure: I don't use Windows, I don't use Apple products, I'm trying to avoid using any closed-source software.

I get it, I really do - if you can live on Linux alone that’s great.

Many other people here will complain about Microsoft ads on the start menu but turn around and forgive Apple who shows you ads every time you want to update your computer via the App Store. With Windows when I remove the ad (which is just a shortcut to a non-installed app) it’s gone forever or at least a long time.

Or, they will fault Microsoft for some slight lock-in with their Mail app that nobody is forced to use and completely forgive Apple for the immense level of lock in on iOS because “Apple has always only offered that” and Microsoft is not allowed to change.

However, I have to put up with basic telemetry which is slightly annoying but not a showstopper for me. I can also install the enterprise version of Windows which I think I can get via my MSDN subscription. Either way, it is annoying but I can live with it.

On my machine right now, Cortana is Disabled in settings and Group Policy settings (you can't disable all of Cortana from regular settings, only the "Hey Cortana" and various ad popups) but the UI is clearly still visible in my taskbar.

If you select disable or disable its permissions in settings, it's disabled.

The fact that there is a Search UI on your taskbar (which you can remove with right click), doesn't imply that Cortana's data collection is enabled.

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