I firmly believe that the majority of people still don't care about their privacy in the first place or they wouldn't use such platforms. IMO this is government overreach and anti-competitive.
I firmly believe that the majority of people still don't care about their privacy in the first place or they wouldn't use such platforms. IMO this is government overreach and anti-competitive.
Currently a provacy conscious start up is competing with those who aren't, making it harder. But with this law, you won't have as many shady companies like Facebook.
Storing less private data makes you less liable to get hacked and get bad PR.
The GDPR states that it must be accessible in a common digital format which is new.
There's nothing inherently wrong with a high bar to entry if that bar exists for a very good reason. If it were hard to break into this space due to regulation (I don't believe it is or will be) then yes, competition will be less, but the alternative is worse.
Safety critical code and health care technology are life and death situations.
It's also important to understand that the regulations in those sectors have destroyed (or deterred) an incredibly large number of startups, and the net lives saved as a result is quite likely negative because the value of life-saving technological advances generally exceeds the cost of mistakes in developing them.
People have severe emotional reactions to this. A doctor's experiment may kill fifty already-terminal patients but uncover a cure that goes on to save five million. But the families of the fifty dead patients can blame a specific person for their deaths while the five million aren't even aware what they lost, so the regulations are biased against progress.
This is obviously not a good template for making decisions in other industries where emotions don't run so high.
That's the point. If we pass regulations that result in continued and increased centralization because only large organizations can afford compliance, that is not advantage to the people whose lives are at risk.
If you're a homosexual in Russia or a democracy activist in China or an advocate for womens' education in parts of the middle east or a Jew in WWII Germany, "privacy laws" can't save you. A company's fear of the state can't protect anyone from a corrupt state. But structural and technological privacy protections might. Which are the things hamfisted regulations inhibit.
Debian is better at this than AT&T.
It's fairly clear that giving away people's data without any care is unsafe.
The answer is yes, it is onerous. And yes, it does matter.
Regulations always start as an idea that sounds good. The companies most impacted are then motivated to gain control of the regulations. Once they do, then they happily add on to regulations because that becomes a barrier to entry for new competitors, but do so in a way that ceases to be a problem for themselves. In the end the regulatory framework stops working and we have the very disaster that we were trying to block.
This is called regulatory capture. It is very, very common.
In the case of Facebook, here is the problem. The regulators are controlled by politicians who wish to remain in power. If Facebook breaks the rules in favor of those politicians, it becomes easier for the politicians to remain in power. The incentive is therefore for the politicians to become complicit in letting Facebook break the rules. However no new startup can provide the politicians with an incentive that matters - only Facebook, Google, and other similarly large players can bribe politicians in back room deals.
The payback for Facebook is that they get to solve their biggest existential crisis. The barrier to entry for a new social network just aren't as big as it seems. They can keep milking more from their users and buying up the Instagrams for only so long until something like Snapchat or Discord or someone not yet thought of succeeds. If Facebook is to avoid being replaced in the way that they replaced MySpace, and MySpace replaced Friendster, they need a new barrier to entry.
Regulation provides that for them. In public they will get chastised. You'll get speeches that you love. In private, they will happily become part of an effective surveillance state for those already in power in return for a blind eye being turned to their ongoing transgressions.
The result? The regulation that you are cheering won't accomplish the causes that you want. And if history is a guide, the very politicians whose speeches are the most to your taste will tend to be the ones who behind closed doors are selling you out. With their public speeches being nothing more than bargaining chips for private deals.
The issue you are talking about is rampant in USA. The problem is not regulations but your politicians and your filthy rich businessmen.
And for the record, I grew up in Canada. I am not opposed to the idea of regulation in principle. However every approach has failure modes. And regulation works a lot better in practice when you exercise skepticism about the actual aim as opposed to the stated one.
If you wish to build your skills at skepticism, I highly recommend watching the series Yes, Minister. It is from the UK in the 1980s. However the lessons about how bureaucrats manage to get their way while pretending to listen to politicians are timeless. It also came out much later that it is less fiction than it first appears - most episodes were based on actual incidents. And some were downright prophetic - compare https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE with actual British policy towards the EU since.
I have no reason to believe that the picture painted then of the bureaucracy in Whitehall is significantly better than the bureaucracy that has sprung up in the EU.
We wouldn't let a self driving startup ignore traffic laws because it's "too hard". Likewise we shouldn't let a social startup ignore privacy laws and auditing.
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There are a lot of extremely serious questions that arise regarding network security, anti-fraud, and anti-abuse measures. Just looking at basic bot detection measures, all of the sophisticated methods are now illegal. It certainly requires a major re-think of how websites serve content as well as the sustainability of advertising as a revenue channel. I can't even wrap my head around how someone would run a GDPR-compliant dating website/app.
If you think Pagefair's interpretations of the GDPR are correct then Google and others are calling the EU's bluff. They are implementing part of the GDPR strictly but the parts which invalidate their business models are being interpreted more liberally or ignored altogether.
I'm not saying that the GDPR is a good idea, bad idea, morally right or wrong. Rather, a lot of things we have come to view as a given -- such as how we detects bots, fraud, and abuse -- are no longer valid. Infrastructure, both technical and business, will need to be re-designed either to comply with the GDPR or evade it.
I really feel like the answers to all of those questions are going to be basically identical between people, and all you really need to do is be able to export whatever data you have on somebody quickly in order to be able to respond to that email in under quarter of an hour.
I guess it could make a decent DoS tactic against a small company, but lots of other things would too.
Let's take an app like Instagram as an example. Instagram had over 1 million users within two months and 10 million within a year, and no profits. You're running on a shoestring trying to keep servers online without any serious budget to speak of. It's probably you and a few friends/associates working closely together.
All of a sudden with GDPR, you have to pay a lawyer to help you understand what you need to do to comply with the regulations. You also have to spend engineering time developing solutions to enable the queries in that letter, enable purging records from long-term backups, etc. And people have to spend the 15 minutes responding to each request.
Now, let's say each request does only take 15 minutes like you suggest (which I find highly unlikely). If a small fraction like 0.5% of your customer base sends such a letter, then that's 50,000 letters. At 15 minutes each, that's 12,500 hours which is over 6 full-time employees. Many small business don't even have 6 employees to conduct the entirety of their business right now!
The letter is nicely formatted into 9 bullets. All are optional for small companies, and all can be automated - the answer should be the same for all users.
1. This is a "yes" or "no" question. If the answer is "no", you can ignore the rest of the letter. If yes, the answer is the same for all users.
2. Simple, short, same for all users.
3. You can avoid doing if you want. If you are doing this, you're signing up to take on this additional burden of informing your users. Consider this when making this decision. This is the only bullet in the list that is in any way burdensome as you will need to update this text in your automated response whenever you take on 3rd-parties (if at all).
4. Simple, short, same for all users.
5. and 6. are "if" conditionals that you shouldn't be doing. The answer should be "No".
7. Amounts to "has my data been hacked". If yes, that's unfortunate, but obviously you have a moral obligation to respond here regardless. Presuming you're hacked once, you provide full details once and send automatically to any users who ask.
8. and 9. are out of place. GDPR doesn't require you to respond to these questions within this quoted 1 month time limit (you do have to have what's detailed within them in place to comply with GDPR but that's tangential to info requests). These seem to have been put into this blog post as extra scaremongering.
* by "well-meaning" I basically mean "not selling all of your users personal data to myriad nefarious 3rd-parties"
Pretty much everyone is going to. Google Analytics, Zendesk, Salesforce, and more all qualify. Hell, even AWS qualifies...
> 5. and 6. are "if" conditionals that you shouldn't be doing. The answer should be "No".
Why do you say that? Given that we're discussing technical companies, I fully expect that automated decisions will be made.
> 7. Amounts to "has my data been hacked". If yes, that's unfortunate, but obviously you have a moral obligation to respond here regardless. Presuming you're hacked once, you provide full details once and send automatically to any users who ask.
And "detail all your security measures". Which, for a small company that doesn't have an InfoSec group, probably means next to nothing. An admission that feels a lot like liability...
> 8. and 9. are out of place. GDPR doesn't require you to respond to these questions within this quoted 1 month time limit (you do have to have what's detailed within them in place to comply with GDPR but that's tangential to info requests). These seem to have been put into this blog post as extra scaremongering.
It's the sort of thing an angry consumer might do, and most startup founders subject to GDPR are not deeply knowledgeable about it.
I worded this badly. This is optional on a case by case basis, i.e. there's a cost-benefit to using each 3rd-party, and this burden is worth considering for each. It's still not a massively onerous burden tbh if you do use a lot of 3rd parties.
> And "detail all your security measures". Which, for a small company that doesn't have an InfoSec group, probably means next to nothing. An admission that feels a lot like liability...
I'm sorry but if you're really defending companies with no competent security measures in place, regardless of size, I think you're in the wrong forum here. If you are a commercial entity of any size there should be moral hazard in ignoring security of your users' personal data.
> It's the sort of thing an angry consumer might do, and most startup founders subject to GDPR are not deeply knowledgeable about it.
Exactly. And unlikely to be more knowledgeable if they're reading misleading scaremongering articles like this on LinkedIn!
I'm up close and personal with a vendor assurance process right now. It's often a non-trivial amount of time for any given vendor.
> I'm sorry but if you're really defending companies with no competent security measures in place, regardless of size, I think you're in the wrong forum here. If you are a commercial entity of any size there should be moral hazard in ignoring security of your users' personal data.
I'm sorry, I worded this badly. I'm saying that small startups have a tendency to prioritize getting a product working and seeing if it's worth investing heavily in before standing up a strong information security unit. You're absolutely, completely, 100% correct that there should be incentives to be very careful with user data.
I think it's possible to see where some people might find the level of expense and expertise required to be appropriately careful somewhat scary. I can even see where some people might decide to not create a social media startup to challenge Facebook because of this fear.
People keep sharing that “nightmare letter” link but won’t point out which question gives them nightmares and why.
Second, a list of everything across all types of storage in any and all systems stands out. Even large companies often lack the ability to search ZenDesk, Salesforce, email, AWS S3, and Slack logs all at once.
Third, there's a clause that asks quite specifically for a thorough list of any and all potential future plans. That's a lot, especially given how startups are subject to pivoting.
Fourth, the section about third parties is essentially asking for the outcome of a vendor assurance process. A lot of small companies can't pass a reasonable vendor assurance process. They often can't afford the time and assurance specialists to manage one for their vendors. Even large companies often have trouble maintaining the level of control required for thorough vendor assurance. The bit about legal reasoning implies the involvement of a lawyer as well.
Fifth, there's a strong implication that no matter what you might say in response, it's not going to be good enough. There's always something that can be pointed to as not enough.
With all of the above combined, I can see where some might view GDPR as intimidating and favoring big companies over small ones through sheer costs.
There is a standard way in which "reasonable" regulations kill small companies. It works like this. You impose some small burden, something like an hour of labor a week. That won't destroy a small company, but that is not the only rule in the world. That rule takes an hour, another rule an hour and a half, a third rule a half hour. By the 60th rule, a two person company is past sunk. Even if every individual rule is nominally reasonable, the combination is hopelessly destructive.
The problem with tech companies is the rules don't just add together, they get multiplied by the user base, and it's entirely common for a very small company to have ten million users.
So you take a letter like that. The first time you get one it will take you a week to figure it out, but over time you get the response time down to an hour. Only with 10 million users, if 0.1% of the users make such a request per year, you're looking at 27 of those every day. That's more than three full time employees doing nothing but that. For this one "reasonable" regulation.
- the requirement to have a DPO. Based on the requirements for the DPO, no one in the company can fill the role (conflict of interest), so we must hire an employee or consultant (expensive either way for a small startup)
- one month to respond. That's a lot of informations to collect the first time, and I might have other fires to put out (or I have to be pro-active and have a prepared respond, which has the take the place of something else important to do)
- the sheer amount of informations to collect. In the age of plug and play solutions, that's a LOT of things to audit (Mailchimp, AWS, GA, Heroku, various Wordpress plugins, logging solution I don't even remember the name, just to name a few)
- tracking every single PI of a user. If your systems are not built for this, it's going to be lengthy. If you were created before the GDPR, they are probably not.
- tracking down the usage of those PI may be complicated depending of the expected scope and usage you do (fortunately for me, there is no ad nor data resell, so really only the scope is the problem)
- some process asked for have a serious implication you should have some and do some sort of things. This is not feasible for a small startup.
It boils down to: it takes time, and time is something I'd rather use for something else, and it also requires to do things that have huge fixed cost that the size of a small company can't absorb (at least not until there is a ready-made solution).
I define small startup as startups with less than 20 employees, that might have received Seed funding but not more. Those points might not all be applicable to a new startup created with GDPR in mind.
We are mostly fine with the spirit of the GDPR, it's the work we have to do to follow it to the letter which is a problem (and the lack of process internally).
The FDA makes the medical field hard to break into for startups, but for good reason. New medical devices need to go through rigorous verification and validation to show that they work as intended. If a company making pacemakers had the same "move fast and break things" attitude as most of SV seems to have, I might never trust medical companies again. As a consumer, I'm extremely content with the quality of pharmaceuticals and devices, and I wish I could trust Facebook or Google as much as I trust Medtronic or Philips Healthcare.
I don't see a comparison between what people *willingly post online to public forums compared to their personal health ledger
There is, or at least there was a Facebook project for exactly that [1]The thing is that none of those "anonymized" subjects would have ever been asked for consent if they really knew about the consequences.
Such behavior has really, really bad real world implications: When I got a knee operated one of the questions on the questionaire you need to fill is if you agree that your data can be shared in anonymous form for research. At that point (and given that this was a fairly benign condition) I didn't see a problem with consenting.
After that revelation about what Facebook was up to my answer in the future is a clear NO!
Facebook handling medical data. What could ever go wrong with that?
[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/05/facebook-building-8-explored...
If you cannot comply with privacy rules you should not do social media, whatever you growth phase
Everything is as in citation from GDPR:
"Taking into account the state of the art, the cost of implementation and the nature, scope, context and purposes ... implement appropriate technical and organisational measures ..."
2. The essential ban on offering services, downloads, etc. in exchange for consent to use data reduces consumer autonomy and will decrease the availability of free resources.
3. It will be extremely easy to use SARs maliciously, and the law includes NO check whatsoever on this. All it would take to cripple many SMBs is for some jerk to spin up a website that provides a nasty SAR template (that the users don't even realize is such a burden) that random people on the Internet can auto-send to every business they've ever used under some innocuous-sounding reason like "See what information businesses have on you!" 99% aren't using data against subjects' interests, so the net effect of this alone (in the way it is designed) is potentially-immense costs for small benefits.
As a recommendation, the $250 my company spent on buying me a membership to the IAPP has been one of the highest ROI decisions in recent memory. It has saved me a ton of time and effort (and the company quite a bit of money) from the member resources available, and the members listserv is essentially free light consulting from people who have already dug into everything.
Yet... I've read through GDPR. All ninety-nine articles are chock full of "reasonable measures" and similar verbiage. Unless you can afford a compliance specialist - which isn't automatic for a new player - it's intimidating as all hell. What are reasonable security measures, as seen from by a careerist somewhere in Brussels? The text is silent on what exactly that means.
It's possible that respecting users and having good intentions may not be enough...
Most important is to document everything. Have a design history file that you can show in case you get audited. When you design your software, save your designs in the DHF. When you update or make changes to the design, put that in your DHF too.
For each GDPR article where it makes sense, have it written somewhere how you are compliant with what they ask for (you probably don't need to demonstrate compliance with Article 4 [1] but you should have it written somewhere how you are compliant with all the points in Article 5 [2]. When it says "Personal data shall be: (b) collected for specified, explicit and legitimate purposes and not further processed in a manner that is incompatible with those purposes" You should be able to procure a document that lists the various kinds of personal data collected and how each is used; e.g. "Username: The username serves to associate a person's login id to their profile. [... other details] Profile Picture: The profile picture serves to display an image of the user. [... other details]."
When it tells you to have reasonable security measures, then document what your security measures are. "This data is encrypted" or "This data is saved on an external server disconnected from the internet and only accessible by someone with a dongle". If you're still worried that your user data could be insecure, then it might be worth hiring a security specialist to check it out.
[1] https://gdpr-info.eu/art-4-gdpr/ [2] https://gdpr-info.eu/art-5-gdpr/
With all that said, my point was that it's not obvious what is and isn't reasonable. Hiring a security specialist won't necessarily help you understand what bureaucrats will or won't deem reasonable, especially when there's no history to provide context.
It's your best guess what is and isn't reasonable. As long as you've documented what you did and why you did it, then you've satisfied that requirement. If an auditor finds what you've done to be insufficient, you'll probably get a warning but you'll still be considered compliant for having done something.
I know it's not a satisfying answer and I'm sorry that I don't have a better one, but complying with regulation is not as definite a "yes/no" as programming.
My knowledge is with the FDA so I'll give an example I'm familiar with. I worked with CT scanners and we needed to do verification/validation. The FDA requirement was to the effect of "must define reasonable requirements for the device" and "must set up testing procedures that reasonably demonstrate that a device can meet its requirements" and so the team I worked with set requirements like "radiation dose: <20rad when run on [x] setting" and then tested it at [x] setting 5-20 times, then documented "passes radiation dose test with 99% certainty, which exceeds our cutoff for passing which is 95%".
CT is an old industry so there was a bit more to it than that, but we were still following requirements that we had written, and testing them in with procedures we had made. The point is the requirements even in the health industry can be vague, so you really just have to do your best to come up with something reasonable.
And because it's vague, that's also why it's so important to document everything.
Fuck the users! They're not the clients.
I am starting to look at privacy like it should be treated as a public safety concern, since it’s invisible to people until it’s not.
Yeah, it can and it did. Not only did the Ashley Madison leak led to a few deaths, check out what happens in countries where homosexuality is punished by death when private information goes public...
I assume you're aware of this: https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/13/un-says-facebook-is-accele...
That said, if a fire occurs in my shelter and I don't have sprinklers installed, I could die.
We don't have mandatory sprinklers in home offices and undeveloped land and buildings that are still under construction.
The problem with the equivalent distinction in software is that there is no clear point that software is "finished" like a building is. The architect doesn't come back and make changes a year after the occupants move into a building.
If there is no exception for new code still under testing then there is no way to test new code. But if there is, everyone will live their lives inside of it.
I am very curious to see what happens to EU ad revenue after GDPR. If it doesn't drop (outside of Google & Facebook's internal platforms), I'm guessing there isn't much GDPR compliance going on.