My point is - in US not tipping felt like being an absolute asshole, to a point where people would be upset - they grew up in a culture that values money above all else and not being tipped is I don't know, an equivalent of being spat in the face? In UK I've never felt that way. I've had perfectly good meals that I didn't tip on, just like I did in France, Spain or Germany and it never felt like the server expected a tip. They might be a bit disappointed that they didn't get one, but that's their problem. I'm disappointed about a lot of things but that doesn't mean I'm entitled to them.
Employers are supposed to make up the difference if the total with tips falls below minimum wage, but I don't think enforcement on that is very strict.
I'd rant about "this generation is so entitled" but hey that post says it all.
I have paid for the meal. At the end of my visit I was given a receipt and paid the indicated price - what else do you want? If the server is disappointed they didn't get a tip, then I think I know who is entitled in this relationship, and I have a very strong suspicion it's not me.
>> in fact nobody else but you can do anything about it
I pay my employees a good wage - so why can't the restaurant owner do the same? It's not up to me to make sure that a waiter is satisfied with their job - it's their employers problem, just like I have to take care of my own employees.
The restaurant owner in America does not pay a good wage, because tipping is a thing and the market adjusted. Not tipping for service is victimizing the least powerful person in the relationship. And the need to make it 'ok' is self-serving doubletalk.
A famous dude said "I will judge you by how you treat the least powerful person in the room"
The market would adjust itself overnight if everyone stopped tipping, and I'm sure even you can see that.
On my end, what can I do to stop this country becoming more like America in terms of tipping? Well, not tip of course, in which case it won't become expected and necessary to support shitty business practices. Amazon has "suggested" tipping for drivers now. Uber suggests tips. Deliveroo expects tips. It is imperative that if you live in UK you select ZERO on all of these. If you enter any value above zero you are sending a clear signal to Amazon etc that they can pay their drivers shitty wages because the customer is willing to subsidise them. Is an Uber driver going to feel sad they got zero tips that day? You bet they will - and I still couldn't care any less, their personal job satisfaction should not be subsidised by me.
But I've gotten away from my original point - yes, I recognize that in US the market is adjusted for tipping. But my original comment wasn't about US - it was about UK, where - to my relief - tipping isn't a requirement. Fortunately I can still pay only as much as the bill says and not feel bad about it in the slightest, because I know the person serving my table does not rely on my tips to survive. And like I said above - I do tip when the service is good at restaurants. I just don't want it to become a norm like in the US of A.
In Europe servers are paid more than the equivalent of $2 an hour because the cost of their pay is already factored into the price. I still tip for great service, but increasingly I cannot in any way begin most transactions in the US without hidden fees springing up the whole way.
I'm no millennial, but I've frequently not been able to leave a tip while paying for dinner in the UK because I've paid by card and had literally no cash on me. I've felt bad about not leaving a tip for good service, but I know that the servers will at lease make minimum wage before tips, unlike in the US. The whole point of this entire thread of discussion is about how people are switching to card-only payments in some areas and different/changing cultural norms, and while there could have been an interesting discussion about how this impacts other cultural norms like tipping, you instead just call someone an asshole like Grandpa Simpson yelling at a cloud.
Everybody on HN is of a different generation than me. Not rocket science.
The addition of sales tax and service charge is more a frustration than tipping to me, tis why I hate restaurants in Asia that are ++ (10% SC + 7% tax). I'd like to ask them a) under what circumstances do I not have to pay the tax? b) if service is crap are you going to remove the service charge, the answer basically point to everyone pays it. I prefer wysiwyg pricing and tipping for the real extra mile. Also note service charge is rarely distributed fairly to staff that are serving you.
This doesn't make sense in a society (like the US) where many (most?) people pay for dining out with a credit card.
I and many people I know carry cash infrequently because of the ubiquity of credit card acceptance.
Anyway, none of this is to disagree with you, but just to point out that your example might be less common in the U.S. than you think.
That would seem cheesy af to me. Like "Here have some money you poor thing!"
I have heard more BS excuses from servers on forums: "The government demands we pay tax on these tips, even when we don't get them". No, the government recognizes you're in a cash-heavy industry, and would like you to document things. If you do, you pay tax on the tips you get, not the default amount. Quick way to get banned from said forums? Ask if they are sure to supply documentation when they get tips above and beyond that amount to the IRS.
They also like to claim that "20% is cheap, you should be aiming for 25%"... eh.