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Comment by throwafk81 | Hacker News Reader

I’m European. I can be fined and/or incarcerated if what I say on the internet is arbitrarily deemed as “hate speech”. You don’t need to live in China to be censored.

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That's bad, but you have bad and worse. For example in the US the TSA does things the police (and nobody, really,) should never be able to, and they do it without warrants: but that alone does not mean that the US is an authoritarian police state (even though it is more of one than it could be). Likewise, there's a difference between corporate influence in government and outright, socially accepted direct bribery.

This applies to every country, they could all be better or worse: but some of them are currently worse than others.

Having to be scanned to get on a plane seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to have to do. I fly often and I'm glad the TSA exists and does what it does. I don't feel like my liberty is being taken away in the slightest.

> Having to be scanned to get on a plane seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to have to do.

Even if that scan does little or nothing to actually improve your safety [1]? If I'm going to have my privacy taken away, I want something better in return for it than security theater and wasted taxes.

[1] http://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-o...

>I'm glad the TSA exists and does what it does. I don't feel like my liberty is being taken away in the slightest.

If you truly believe that, would you be opposed to TSA style x-ray machines, genital pat downs, and strip searches any time you were to go to school, work, get on a bus, etc?

Well that would be an inconvenience because I and many others go to work and ride public transport every day. Which is why we don't see TSA checkpoints everywhere; it would be too inconvenient.

People fly infrequently though, and also have a very strong desire to feel safe when flying, so they are for the most part fine with TSA checkpoints. TSA checkpoints are implemented to make people feel safe.

See, it's a balance.

TSA checkpoints have accelerated to being in subways, etc.

Ratchets only tighten.

>Well that would be an inconvenience

So in other words, restricting your liberty or freedom of movement?

Many chinese citizens feel the same way about the "social credit system".

Do you believe the censorship in Europe is the same as in China? I guess more generally do you believe China taking over would not make things worse?

China is simply further down the same exact line, for lack of better phrasing.

That's a pretty weak comparison to China's totalitarian system of censorship and monitoring.

The Police of London actively scan and monitor social networks looking for “hate speech” so they can pursue legal action. What’s the difference between that and what China does?

The difference is that you can criticize the government and not be thrown in jail. You have a lot more autonomy in your opinions on how you are governed. You can have his conversation at all!

> Contrary to previous understandings, posts with negative, even vitriolic, criticism of [China], its leaders, and its policies are not more likely to be censored. Instead, we show that the censorship program is aimed at curtailing collective action by silencing comments that represent, reinforce, or spur social mobilization, regardless of content.

https://gking.harvard.edu/publications/how-censorship-china-...

Okay, so we can even have the conversation about broad social implications, compare/contrast, what we can do about it, etc. is a drastic difference.

Shouldn't hate speech should be punished?

Offending someone shouldn't be illegal. Period.

Directly inciting actual physical violence, you might have an argument for.

But words and ideas must remain free to maintain any semblance of a free society.

As other commenters have said: who decides?

The problem with that is, who defines what “hate” is?

London deemed hate wpeech punishable, China determines certain speech (that it deems bad for society as well) punishable. No difference except for a difference in perspective.

No. Not because of the usual slippery slope reasons, but because denying someone their freedom for mere words is abhorrent.

I'm European. I'm glad there's an attempt to protect vulnerable groups.

"The Holocaust" isn't a vulnerable group.

I’m sure the Chinese are also glad there’s an attempt to maintain order and avoid social unrest. ;-)

It's funny, hate speech laws are unconstitutional and could not be passed in the US but such laws are commonplace in Europe. Yet people like to mock the US for saying it's the land of the free.

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