Comment by mind_heist | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mind_heist | Hacker News Reader

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Hmm, How effective is this? I recently watched ICARUS and I have been reading a lot about doping and how athletes circumvent the tests done by WADA labs ( World Anti Doping Agency). I have a couple of questions regarding this and in no particular order of importance

(1) Should a state decide to implement something like this, isn't this some sort of privacy violation by the state? People could have been prescribed these Anabolics by a physician too, don't they also come under the scanner?

(2) Also, I don't clearly understand the sampling here, tons of gallons get pumped into the wastewater system. How much quantity of samples would be collected for testing purposes? and what is the frequency of these samples being collected?

(3) Please totally excuse my ignorance here, the major banned substances for which athletes have been banned are "Methylhexaneamine", "Methenolone","Oxandrolone", and a lot of "Stanozolol" and "Turinabol" ( I m getting all this from this wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Olympic_Games#Di...). The table in the paper doesn't seem to mention any of these substances. Are they mentioned under a different name?

(4) Also, in the light of new information (ie) state-sponsored doping, Lance Armstrong escaping some 500 Lab tests & going completing uncaught by WADA and so many other labs around the world, as a spectator I already know that a ton of Olympic athletes are doping. Isn't the actual problem trying to prove that "individual" athletes are doping? A collective evidence is probably not as useful anymore since all watchdogs, sports committees and spectators are more skeptical from the get go.

(1) This is being measured in aggregate. It's no more privacy violating than, say, measuring the amount of non-recyclable trash that ends up at the recycling sorting facility.

(2) Consult the methodology section.

(3) Methylhexaneamine (DMAA, spelled "methylhexanamine" in the article) is the 3rd highest thing in the table. There are several other anabolic steroids in the table (see list below). Chemicals tend to sell under several different brand names and your list may intersect the article's list. It's also possible the article's list just contains a different set of chemicals.

To categorize briefly (the list is heavily steroid-focused):

Aromatase inhibitor (prevent aromatization of androgens into Estrogen): Anastrozole, Clomiphene, Tamoxifen

Masking steroid use: Finasteride (new tests obsolete this, at least for pros)

PED/Weight loss: Clenbuterol

Stimulants: Norephedrine, Ephedrine, Methylhexanamine (DMAA)

Steroids: Trenbolone, Nandrolone, Metenolone, Mibolerone, Metandienone

Weight loss: Sibutramine, 2,4-Dinitrophenol

Also note Table 1, which shows (basically) how quickly various PEDs degrade at different temperatures. Several of them degrade in 0-1 days at 20° or 4°C. So unless a large population is taking them (ephedrine), they tend to drop off of test results.

The other consideration is LOD / LOQ (limit of detection, limit of quantitation) — lower levels here ease detection and measurement.

(4) This study is targeted more broadly at the recreational athlete population, rather than pro athletes.

Also note the steroids OP listed are all orals, the list you have for steroids are oils that are injected.

All of these are used with a testosterone base. You don't want to run any of these without test. Some people back in the early bodybuilding days would use nandrolone (better known as Deca or the other variant equipose) as a stand alone cycle but that isn't recommended now.

Another thing that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere here is the use of HGH, IGF1, and insulin.

If you're training seriously for physical sport you need to be on an HGH cycle. This is something that isn't illegal(well its usually aquired illegally) and is prescribed through 'healtg and wellness' or anti-aging clinics.

Insulin is probably going to be more common for weight lifting because it is an incredible anabolic hormone. There are huge risks to using it and can kill you if you mess up. Shockingly anyone can walk into Walgreens and buy it though.

Thanks. I haven't used steroids myself and am unfamiliar with the details of doing a cycle. Quick google search — you would use the testosterone base because the steroids otherwise inhibit your natural test production?

Is there any good evidence that HGH helps sports? My understanding is that there evidence is limited and it isn't clear it's positive.

Correct the other steroids can still cause your natural production to shut off which is going to make your body feel like crap.

HGH is going to be beneficial because of it's going to increase collegan in your body which will make your joints and ligaments stronger. It's going to help with wuicker recovery from from work outs. Also most people report getting better sleep while using it. So hgh isn't going to make you huge directly rather it's more of a behind the scenes thing helping you out. If you are predisposed for cancer though you might want to be careful. Hgh of course does increase the rate of cellular growth and division so you are increasing your odds of cancer by taking it, I'm not a doctor and that could be bs but I think it's worth considering considering

I think part of the thinking behind this is just scientific curiosity (“let’s see if we can do it”)

They collect the wastewater kilometers from the sporting events, so spatial and temporal resolution (where was this dumped into the sewer? When?) will be too low to target individual users.

Application I think will at best be for policy development (what sport should the doping agency focus on? What chemicals? Do people use that new thing that’s being talked about?), not for catching individual users, and probably not even for use at the event being monitored.

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