Hacker News Reader

Comment by truculation | Hacker News Reader

I think what bonds people is shared adversity. Thus, the longer you've known someone the greater the chance that you've come through some tough experiences together (e.g. school, war) and therefore that you trust one another. Perhaps this is how families work. Errors in how to relate cause suffering which paradoxically creates a closer family bond. There are far more occasions to suffer where people share the same space.

View on HN

>I think what bonds people is shared adversity.

I disagree. Now this is all just experience, and could be totally different for someone who is not me, but the most brutal part of my life was high school. I think this might be true of most people in my income tax bracket? I know a few people from that time period, some of who really stood by me and were the closest to 'brothers in arms' that I will (hopefully) ever know.

but... I'm not really close with any of those people anymore. When we gained our ability to choose our peers, we all went our own ways, finding niches where we all felt best.

Part of this is that when things are at their worst? you are not at your best. Or, at least I wasn't at my best in high school. I was a real jerk, and I think you'd have to have christ-like instincts to go through experiences that hostile without being a jerk. Or, in any case, I wasn't good enough to remain "good" through the experience (though I do think I'm much less of a jerk now, in part because I have a life where people generally treat me well, and where treating others well is generally rewarded better than treating others poorly, and in part because it's been 20 years, and I've grown and matured and reflected.)

This could work, but with caveat. The tricky part is transition from close friends to partners, because while being close friends is the requisite for their love to blossom, there are a lot of unspoken assumptions that each party asks from the other that only romantic partners do. Also, when they know each other for years, they make assumptions about the other and have certain understanding of each other, hence departures from these assumptions could lead to devastating effect.

The millions of men who have been "friend zoned" will probably beg to differ. Groups like "the red pill" insist that the road to love doesn't go through friendship, and that when it comes to opposite sex friendship is actually a dead end.

Sorry I was unclear. I am talking about dynamics of people whom became romantic couples after a long period of friendship, not relationship advice in general.

The “friend zone” is just an excuse some men come up with for not wanting to admit that attraction wasn’t mutual. It’s really creepy to think that they deserve sex for stringing someone along with the false pretense of being a friend — would they ever use “dead end” to describe a same sex friendship which didn’t lead to sex?

And I think it's mildly insulting to be classified as a subpar male, a "male female friend". Worse, because she's not going to trust me as much as her proper female friends, she would always be on guard. Certainly damaging to the male ego. I don't cultivate such relationships unless I don't feel attracted to the woman in question. Think of the "disabled" "friend" of Mary from "There's Something About Mary".

> I don't cultivate such relationships unless I don't feel attracted to the woman in question.

This is certainly a common dynamic, with a lot of cultural reinforcement, but my point was simply that it's not the fault of the woman but rather the man who's trying to will something into existence and, in many cases, pretending to be something he's not.

And to answer the second part of your question, being bisexual(bi-curious) I wouldn't mind having sex with a male friend if he's in shape, and I would even propose if I lived in a less homophobic country. My same-sex attraction is much weaker though and I can control it, whereas with women it tends to be a slippery slope and gets stronger over time. The bottom line is being friends with a woman I actually desire is harmful to me in the long term. I've been there and not going to make that mistake again.

Ah, the "When Harry met Sally" question. "Can a man and a woman really be just friends?"

I mean, it's a valid question to ask, but "The red pill," as far as I can tell, is taking one side; that you can't really be just friends with someone you are really attracted to, and then building a worldview based on that answer. Which is fine, I guess, if everyone involved knows that is what is going on, but it's almost wholly unrelated to the "how do you make or maintain friendships?" question the article is trying to answer.

I've heard an analogy that there are three types of relating:

- Therapy

- Yoga

- Enlightenment

This is a very unusual point of view so let me explain: what you've described is therapy relating. It's when you need consolation, a hug, someone to listen to, etc. Yoga is doing things together to experience something new or get something done. This is activity-based friendship, travel, telling stories, etc. Enlightenment is woo-woo type of relating where you relate to people the same way you relate to everything else in life - without purpose, you just do.

These are of course very broad strokes.

I would love to learn where I can read more about this point of view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=647FIQMR6jg

This is where I heard it. I'd make the suggestion to open your mind very wide however, it is very easy to dismiss what he says because of the way he says it.

I don't think you have to both share the adversity as much as having empathy, listening and really caring (both in your words and in actions) to have a solid friendship. Being comfortable enough to share these things with someone is a huge deal, and sharing what you're going through with others seems to feel good for some reason.

The easiest way to get shared adversity is exercise based: crossfit, softball team, something like that.

There must be other ways though.

First year college physics problem sets are a good one :p

Reply on news.ycombinator.com