Hacker News Reader

Comment by ucaetano | Hacker News Reader

"Tesla said it has only seen this problem occur in "very cold climates" where road salts are commonly used."

Ah, the usual "designed in the Bay Area" issue...

It's a little overkill to characterize this as "faulty" steering. Given that it's a durability issue. And in any case, they're being proactive. Not dragging their feet as manufacturers did over corroding Takata airbag units.

Here is a different perspective from an owner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM5z0dW60KE

And then we find out how a lack of power steering makes autopilot a death mode.

It probably does, as the autopilot probably uses the power steering to steer.

That is why they tell you to not stop focusing on the road as you use it.

Yes, probably so. So maybe don't autopilot before the recall repair.

I've driven mid-sized cars without power assisted brakes and steering, and they were manageable at moderate speed.

The important difference is that those cars were designed for you to steer and brake it without assistance. Different gear ratios and such.

I had to drive a modern car home once with the power brakes malfunctioning and I couldn't exert enough force (grabbing the steering wheel to give me leverage) to have safe braking power. I ended up going very slow in the emergency lane of the highway in second speed so that motor braking could help me stop. It was not fun.

No, this was a modern car, with power assisted steering and brakes. Steering required more force, but wasn't that hard. Braking was iffy, I admit, so I also used engine braking and the hand brake.

And yes, standard transmission. I was coasting downhill in neutral, with the engine etc off. Testing the running start protocol, for dealing with battery failure.

i've driven an old car which had power assisted steering that would occasionally fail while the car was being driven. you could still turn the wheel, it just suddenly required a lot more effort.

i suggest this thing is mainly going to be a problem where the power-assist fails during a trip at some unpredictable and unfortunate moment. driving where you know you won't have power-assist for the entire trip would be far safer.

Does not only affect Tesla the part is made by Bosch and also affects daimler.

I think about DitBA whenever Siri says "Brrr!" to 39 F weather. Put on a sweater, Siri.

"I'm sorry, I don't understand 'sweater'."

Heh, happens all the time when you bring your car from a northeastern state to a mechanic in the south.

Why’s your car in such bad shape?

It’s called rust.

Rebuild it in rust! Wait...

Not really, a lot of other manufacturers had recalls for various parts and even frames in excessive salt conditions.

It's just that such challenging environments trigger the problems first.

Among others, Toyota Tacoma gen 2 frames for certain years were improperly factory coated and would rust straight through.

There's a famous example from the UK told to mech eng students.

One make of car used the wrong type of fixing for the steering wheel and the wheel could come away in your hands :-)

Ha. That actually happened to my dad decades ago (Russian cars lol)

Seriously -like my Beats Studio wireless which turn off in NYC winter!

Get yourself some Massachusetts-designed Bose equipment :)

Mine sometimes struggle in the winter though, especially with my phone in my pocket.

Honda recently moved to a capless gas filler that, in certain climates particularly, will collect water.

Bay Area people are known to spend a lot of time in Tahoe when it's cold. So this is more, "Let's repeat that untrue joke about people in the Bay Area knowing nothing about winter."

hahaha average low in Lake Tahoe is -5 degrees C (23 F). When you think that's cold, then you truly do know nothing about winter.

Given that the flaw revolves around road salt, and not the absolute temperature, yeah, doesn't matter in this particular case.

Regardless of whether Tahoe winters are “real winter” or not, I don’t think they use salt in CA because of the environmental effects downstream - I believe they use sand instead.

This prompted me to look up which states salt and which don't, and I learned the term "Salt Belt":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Belt

(And yeah, you're right: CA isn't one of them.)

California has a variety of climate areas, and a little googling tells me that they use various kinds of salt in the high Sierras, including the Tahoe area. Also, half of Tahoe is in Nevada, which uses salt.

Sand only works when it's barely freezing. Which can be true at low elevations, but not at 10,000'.

It depends. Michigan uses sand when it's too cold for salt to have any effect.

they use sand and gravel in Edmonton. Which is below barely freezing.

Edmonton is barely below freezing in the winter?!?

Almost thought I screwed it up... "below barely freezing", not barely below freezing.

Normally I'd be the first to beat up on Tesla for not actually knowing how to really design or build a car (they don't) - but in this case, its not as if they're the first auto manufacturer with a similar problem.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/ford-recalls-355000-vehicle...

(To be clear, my issues with Tesla is that they do not have the internal manufacturing expertise - or the design expertise for automobiles, and this shows thru parts availability, several recalls, and their slow pace of production - you can't design components with the same tolerances you'd build a MacBook Pro with, and use them on a car, and expect it to work well for manufacturing at scale)

Reply on news.ycombinator.com