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Comment by ams6110 | Hacker News Reader

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ams6110

Yeah, that's how I feel too. When I get an email such as:

> Hey {{ first_name }},

"Hey" isn't a salutation I want as a customer. We aren't friends.

> We miss you.

Bullshit. This is an auto-generated email. Computers don't "miss" people.

> It's been a while since we've seen you. We know you get busy ...

Yes, and now you're interrupting my busy day

> ... but we'd love to see you again soon. In fact, come back and visit us in the next 5 days and take 15% off your order.

If you did a good job with my last purchase, I'll come back when I need something.

50/50 chance at this point that I hit the spam flag.

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Most places are pretty good about sending unsubscribe links these days. However, I ran into a truly awful exception late last year with TaskEasy. For those who don't know, TaskEasy coordinates lawn care and similar services using independent contractors. I was happy with the service I received, and didn't even have to sign up for an account to order it. Then marketing emails started showing up. The unsubscribe link takes you to a login page, but since I never registered this means I have to create an account purely to opt out of spam emails. It's a really dark UI pattern and I'm disappointed in TaskEasy for implementing it.

Yea that sounds like it runs afoul of CAN-SPAM. It's supposed to be one-click away, where you can unsubscribe from all promotional emails.

Yep and I reported them to the FTC. Which as I found out is really easy!

As a dev, I implemented something similar. And I can't speak for TaskEasy but mine wasn't on purpose. Really complex process made simple:

1. Start out with an email transaction that follows up purchases done in the MVP to registered users. All that receive the emails have accounts since the MVP required it. It's not hard to setup automatic emails through code... It's hard to think of edge cases though.

2. Change in spec: more people buy if we change the UX and cut the registration.

3. Send an email to the customer. Oops - no account to unregister.

4. (This is the step that was missing) Change the code that handles emails so everyone can unsubscribe.

Sometimes it's important to get something out quick and things aren't always dark UI / UX on purpose. Users are often blaming us devs for our dark evil powers when all we did was shake out some code on a too tight deadline.

Also a dev and I can see how it would happen. Doesn't make it any less maddening though. It's probably more productive to change the culture around email marketing than to scapegoat one company but I needed to vent that frustration.

> Most places are pretty good about sending unsubscribe links these days.

Yeah, but unfortunately companies are also really, really, really good at putting you on mailing lists/ADLs that you never, ever would have signed up for on your own.

I went to a coffee shop in Palo Alto, bought a coffee, paid by Square, found I was now on one of their Square Marketing ADLs. Never asked for it, never would have asked for it, would have said "Hell no" if I were asked. Flagged it as Spam. Seriously considering never visiting that coffee shop again, but have at the very least switched to paying by cash...

Seriously, cut the bullshit. I don't want to be signed up to your list just because I bought something. Ask me if you want me on your list - if it's something I care enough about, I'd actually be okay with it.

Oh yes, the Square thing is horrible as well. Sign up to get an email receipt once and now everyone you pay with that card can send you spam.

To be fair I shouldn't have been subscribed in the first place. I never asked to receive marketing emails and shouldn't have to unsubscribe.

I have gotten lazy about looking for unsubscribe links and more aggressive about hitting"report spam" on Gmail

> Most places are pretty good about sending unsubscribe links these days.

Yeah, sure, nevermind that there is a new list you have to unsubscribe for every month.

I never do a second buy, sometimes I have the energy to do a 1 star review for anyone that sends me mails that I couldn't avoid during the purchase.

Agreed, this really grates on me too. I'm seriously thinking about just filtering anything with an unsubscribe link.

I've had nothing but bad experiences with TaskEasy personally, so I'm not surprised that unsubscribing from their emails was such a poor experience.

I'm so with you on this.

But we need to understand the regular end user, the average joe, doesn't even know what a spam filter is.

His inbox fills in until he is too afraid to read mails from it, and just looks for emails with particular addresses once a month, then otherwise uses facebook.

Very few click "unsubscribe". Or even notice the checkbox at registration for accepting to received the newsletter.

They use computers very passively. Like an interactive TV with more channels. I've been workon on porn website and video streaming website long enough to learn how little tech saavy the it gets on the other side of the cable.

I've read studies that say that the average user hits spam when the legitimately signed up and just want to unsubscribe. It's easier than clicking the unsub link.

>> come back and visit us in the next 5 days and take 15% off your order

Ugh, I hate this tactic. I understand why it's done - a customer is expensive to acquire, and it's cheaper to give a discount to an inactive customer than to acquire a new one. Yet it effectively rewards non-loyal customers, while loyal customers who provide a steady stream of repeat business are taken for granted. How many businesses who use this strategy also email their best customers with "Thank you for your loyalty - here's 15% off your next order within [some reasonable, non-manipulative, number of days]"?

"I'm sorry for interrupting your day..."

No you're not. You wouldn't have interrupted me if you were sorry!

That shit winds me up so much. But then broadly speaking so does every other auto-bot spam emial

It’s just like “sorry are you busy, I just have a quick question”

My other pet peeve is how some marketers use the words “crushing it” in an effort to make me believe something. I must be getting old, because crushing it doesn’t resonate with me.

Seriously, hit spam. You think it’s spam; I think it’s spam; is there anyone who thinks it’s not spam?

50/50?

100% for me. If they don't do double-opt in, then they are spamming me.

Also if you use light grey text for the unsubscribe, it is also spam

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