Hacker News Reader

Comment by kovek | Hacker News Reader

Some people are confused about what this is.

On this page you see examples of websites you can host yourself. I'll use Mastodon as an example since I've used it. I know about hubzilla slightly but have not used it.

Mastodon is a platform you can run on your own server. That server you're running is called an instance. You can also register on an instance someone else is running.

Think of a single Mastodon instance as a clone of Twitter. One nice thing is: Your server, your rules.

Then, you can also allow your Mastodon instance and its users and their posts to be discoverable by other instances.

I think it's said to be federated because no one entity controls the content that is being shared. the information is passed around from instance to instance by rules that are defined on a per-instance basis.

View on HN

I was looking at this page the other day, since I've been interested in hosting something like a Mastodon instance for friends. But, I'm not sure what my responsibilities as a host and admin would be under some of the new U.S. legislation (like the CLOUD Act.) Those laws seem to directly contend with my desire to protect user's privacy and data.

Can I assume that these services (e.g. Mastodon and hubzilla) can talk to each other?

As long as the two services implement a shared protocol like ActivityPub [1], then yes they can communicate! For instance, both Mastodon and PeerTube (p2p youtube clone) implement ActivityPub, and so can communicate. And although according to [2], hubzilla doesn't appear to currently implement ActivityPub, however there is an intermediary "Bridgy Fed" [3] which can bridge between Mastodon and hubzilla.

[1] https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/ [2] https://activitypub.rocks/implementation-report/ [3] https://fed.brid.gy/

For what it's worth, Hubzilla is working on getting an ActivityPub API up soon.

They're also looking to implement OpenID2 so it can be used to log into websites just like Facebook currently can.

ActivityPub has been supported in Hubzilla since around June/July 2017. It provides social communications in ActivityPub, Diaspora, OStatus, and Zot. It's designed primarily as a distributed content management and decentralised identity/privacy platform, whereas most of the other fediverse projects focus primarily on social networking.

I heard that things like hashtags aren’t federated though. I think it’s important to make especially posts findable across instances via hashtags.

Wouldn't you have to connect to every instance on the planet and ask each one individually if they have public messages with those hashtags?

I don't think Diaspora* and Mastodon will, just to clarify what other people are saying. But Mastodon <-> Mastodon should (and maybe even ones based off the same protocol).

Also note that email is federated, yet the majority of users have congregated around Gmail.

I predict that the same thing will happen with Mastodon, and that is not the type of future we should have.

Instead, I urge everybody to use P2P/decentralized networking, where even though there might be strong/reliable federated hosts, YOU fundamentally control your identity and it does NOT belong to a federated host.

With latest WebCrypto, this is perfectly possible now: http://hackernoon.com/so-you-want-to-build-a-p2p-twitter-wit... !

> ...where even though there might be strong/reliable federated hosts, YOU fundamentally control your identity and it does NOT belong to a federated host.

Yeah, owning ones identity and also your followers/friends/etc connection to your account should automatically be updated if you choose to move instances. This is what I believe will allow federation to flourish.

When the shortlived Great Migration to Mastodon took place last year, it was terribly cumbersome if you wanted to move instances — you would lose all of your friends again, at which point you’re required to somehow alert every account which follows you and expect them to go through the steps to add your new account. This is just too messy and for people who have spent years building their perfect social net, this is a pretty severe roadblock when one is forced to choose between a new instance with better culture but losing years of work connecting with interesting people.

Federated networks are a type of decentralized network (since no single instance is a single center point of failure).

I think federated networks are perfectly fine and a good first stepping stone into better decentralization, P2P usually has some problems in usability and moderation/administration.

Mastodon instances allow people with similar interests to live together as a community with a strong bond than what you'd usually encounter in purely P2P networks.

I think the majority of users have several emails, and Gmail rules purely on interface convenience. Its more advanced features (like google maps knowing what hotel you've booked) are mostly creepy, and its storage allowance is not a standout.

I remember Gmail's storage being amazing when it came out...

Yes there isnwork by w3c to spec out this protocol. I'm not sure if its under draft or already an official spec though.

It's called ActivityPub and it's been made an official w3c protocol recently.

Announcement Jan 2018: https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/6785

W3C Recommendation: https://www.w3.org/TR/2018/REC-activitypub-20180123/

Yes, I disagree with the above user's statement about why they're said to be federated- they're federated because content from any instance can appear on any other instance. The federation is the cross-talk.

That's the "federated" part of the article's name.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com