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Comment by Spivak | Hacker News Reader

Edit: Since we're talking about NYC someone who replied to me has more specific data. Roughly 2.5% of commuters use bikes in the city. Obviously it's going to be much less in suburbs and rural areas that aren't as densely packed.

Some rough napkin calculations:

Number of cyclists [1]: 786,000

Number of vehicles [2]: 263,000,000

Does 99.8% of people not count as everyone in a discussion like this?

If you could make a change that improved the daily lives of 99% of people wouldn't that be the easiest policy decision in your life?

[1] https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2014/cb14-86....

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_vehicles_in_the_Unit...

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Why are you using nationwide numbers to address a NYC-local problem.

In New York, only 25% of people drive to work, and in Manhattan it's 5%. Why do they get free rein to block the single lane allotted for 95% of people, in addition to the two-four lanes that they are allotted?

Why are you using total number of people when we're talking road users? Yeah, a lot of people walk or take the subway but they're not exactly concerned about what the edge lane is used for.

I'm not particularly biased towards cars or anything, you could remove the bike lane to make room for bigger sidewalks and have a positive effect since way more people are walking than either driving or biking in Manhattan.

People use the bike lane as a stopping lane because nobody is in it. If there was actual bike traffic this problem wouldn't exist.

Where do you live? People use bike lanes in NYC all the time.

And the total number of people is absolutely the right denominator here, as publicly owned land should be allocated for the greatest possible good of all. You're assuming your conclusion by claiming that vast swaths of public land should be dedicated to drivers alone, and not to the rest of the majority of people who do not drive.

You know what every single person who takes the subway also does? Walks. On average, many blocks, on both ends of their trip. You know what these people will benefit from? More sidewalk space in congested areas. More traffic calming measures, slower vehicles, and safer crossings.

Which was ultimately my suggestion. You could get rid of all cars for all it matters to my argument.

My claim is that bike lanes are an inefficient use of space because they are underutilized and would be better served either for vehicles or pedestrians since they make up all but a tiny percentage of commuters.

If you're going to do all of that traffic calming you probably should just have the bikes use the roads since it'll be safer for them and the speed differential be lower.

NYC DOT keeps stats on bike lanes, and per area of road used they serve more people than vehicle lanes do.

And I do agree with getting rid of many of the cars, and especially all that free public parking. You could easily have wider sidewalks and and bike lanes everywhere if you eliminated a side of parking on every road. As it is now over half the total road surface is allocated to parking, most of it free, which is just absurd.

I'd expect the bike lane blocking problem is not really because of people who "drive to work"; it's because of deliveries, repairs, maintenance and such. (At least where I ride, that's >95 % of bike path disturbances).

Where I ride it's usually taxi or other TLC vehicles just parked there, doing nothing. Usually on break or waiting for a pickup.

Yes, but even taxis aren't "driving to work", they are at work.

They can be "at work" somewhere other than illegally parked in the bike lane waiting around or on break.

Of course they can, and should, but this does not make it relevant to bring in the argument "only 25% of people drive to work".

I still don't understand how this is relevant. You are not allowed to park in bike lanes, full stop. It doesn't matter why you are going somewhere; it's still illegal regardless of whether you're going to work, or going shopping, or whatever.

Given that most people in Manhattan do not drive, it makes sense to prioritize non-drivers over drivers.

For NYC in particular there are better stats (2014):

"About 86,000 adult New Yorkers, 2.5% of all commuting residents, usually bike to work or school" [1]

[1] http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/cyclinginthecity...

Sweet! I'll edit my comment.

Don't forget that cars are much less than 50% here, and bus commuters are among the people that stand to benefit.

You're comparing the number of people who cycle to work with the number of cars in the US. That's an odd comparison.

In spring 2017, the number of people who have been cycling within the last 12 months amounted to 66.21 million. [Source](https://www.statista.com/statistics/227415/number-of-cyclist...). Given that some people own two vehicles, I think you'll find similar numbers for people who own cars and bicycles.

And part of the reason people don't cycle to work is that there aren't safe cycle routes to their work. If you build your infrastructure for cars it forces peoples hand. The Netherlands has extensive cycle friendly roads and adoption is much higher.

More people cycling improves life for everyone, even the drivers.

Cool, so if we make it suck less to ride the bus or bicycle, we'll have more of both, and more commuters will fit in less space. Win/win.

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