Hacker News Reader

Comment by spicymaki | Hacker News Reader

America's aversion to the role of luck is based on the Protestant work ethic. There is no chance and everything is predetermined by God's grace. God's grace is demonstrated by hard work, frugality, and discipline. There is a concept of double predetermination where you already need to be saved to be saved. Which means the poor is poor not because of chance, but because they lack God's grace.

View on HN

Be that as it may, this blog is about a specific paper and the strength of its claims. I don't really think puritanism has anything to do with whether this paper's model or inferences are sound.

But puritanism's remains are responsible for many of the opinions critical of the paper's conclusions. Just ask a few wealthy persons about this paper or others like it: they are usually fiercely critical and have bought completely into ideas that support their "blessed" position in society.

The irony is not lost on Catholics, who are the recipient of much criticism from Protestants who view "saved by works" as an insult to God's grace. (The theology is actually a mix of both since faith without actions is inconsistent, but I'm refering to the stereotype from the Protestant side.)

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater...

Yes, we need to get rid of poor shaming, but that doesn't mean we should also get rid of the culture of hard word, frugality, and discipline.

This is true, but the root of modern democracy has its birth in the same line of hard working and responsible way of living humbly.

What is modern vs not-modern democracy?

Romans and USAmericans both owned slaves.

Classic democracy doesn’t include human rights. If you’re not a male citizen you have no right to be heard, and even then, the majority have the right to execute or exile you if they find you annoying.

Modern democracy is build on a core belief that everyone is created equal and that we are each responsible for our own lives. Something which extremely similar to the core thesis of Lutherism which laid the foundation for the renaissance and the Age of Enlightenment that eventually led to modern liberal democracy.

It’s a lot more complicated than that of course, but this is the Internet not a PhD. :)

Probably means you don't go to jail in 2018 for mean tweets. Or some other modern Nazi line, amirite?

Romans 9:21-23

https://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Rom%209.21-23

It's funny how old religious ideas are simple observations in a way. By doing something everyday you just accumulate lots of subtle knowledge and roots in any domain. So mathematically you have lots of chances to get it right at one point. More than "luck" to me the main factor is a blend of inner desire and context that allows you just enough time to think and do.

Jim Carrey said it best (paraphrased): It is by sheer luck that an opportunity presents itself. But once it does it is up to you to have the means to execute on it, and to execute on it. The good news is that opportunities present themselves often in life. So just get to where you can act on them, and once you see one, act.

amusing that a comment designed to mock the irrationality and simple-mindedness of "Americans", itself provides a strong example of overgeneralizing entire populations, society and culture into simple, easy-to-understand tropes suitable for simpletons.

Convenient.

Excessive belief in luck seems more convenient to me. At least by trying to work hard you're taking responsibility for yourself.

"Excessive" - maybe. On the other hand 'taking responsibility for yourself' leads very fast to the just-world fallacy when applied to others: People don't deserve help, if they worked harder they would have reached their goals.

Maybe. I'd much rather fall closer to the "just-world fallacy" that you mention, than to the "your success is based mostly on 'luck' so we must resort to a 'higher power' to make things 'fair'" side of things.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com