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Comment by eropple | Hacker News Reader

I recommended Keybase to people as a security tool. This isn't security. There is no reason for cryptocurrency bullshit to exist in tools I rely upon. There is no reason for cryptocurrency bullshit to exist things that I use in production capacities.

It is the pure addition of risk to my operations and my clients' operations and offers nothing to me except a ding to my reputation, because I now look like an asshole because a security tool I recommended and spoke highly of is now going to be flogging funbux.

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I'm not so sure that your recommendation is the reason why you look like an asshole at the present moment..

I could maybe see your concern if Keybase were announcing an ICO for their own token, but that is not what this is.

This really is about Keybase bringing expertise with identity to the table and it makes a lot of sense for the two teams to work together. The currency side of things is still going to be handled by Stellar as far as I can tell.

I understand what they are doing.

Here's how normal people look at something like this. It's not "oh, but they're just facilitating," it's "why is there cryptocoin crap in this thing we use for work?". Then it's "Ed, why is this thing you recommended and spoke so highly about doing this? Are they cryptomining on our computers now?". Then, even after an explanation, they're probably still suspicious and probably right to still be suspicious because the cryptocurrency universe is, by normal and sane people, still viewed as a scammer's paradise. (To be clear: is this entirely justified? No, and I think there are decent people trying to make a go of it. But there's plenty of dirt going on and people should be suspicious until it's proven otherwise.)

I don't want this on my computers. But, more than that, I don't want my clients thinking that I am a party to shady business because of the tools I recommend that they use.

If you are so allergic to cryptocurrency, why didn't it bother you when Keybase started writing their root into the Bitcoin blockchain (https://keybase.io/docs/server_security/merkle_root_in_bitco...)?

There are obviously annoying ways in which keybase could support cryptocurrency, but you are making a lot of assumptions about what Keybase is going to do that are not based on the blog post. For example, wallets do not mine coins and Stellar does not support mining.

Why don't you wait to see what comes out and submit a feature request if you don't like it, instead of flipping out about some hypothetical feature you won't like.

Thou art too wise sir. I guess we all have to do is to first wait and see how the implementation is done.

There's nothing wrong with reverting a recommendation. Sounds like you have a great explanation for why you would revert your own recommendation, as well. Just like every other startup in the world, Keybase doesn't "owe" anything to you and might make business decisions that affect your own.

I'm sorry, maybe I misspoke--is there something in my post that suggests that they can't do it? I'm saying that them doing it sucks, and explaining why. And, yes, of course I can change my recommendation--what would make you think that I'm not aware of that?

Rofl, I definitely share some of the sentiments you have regarding crypto is a scammers paradise. That is pretty much due to ICO's imho. What you might want to do, if you do use this in production servers, and I am sure the keybase team will add the option not to use it, it is open source. So you can easily simply remove that, I know that creates a bit of work and will therefore make it harder. I am just saying if this is being used in something that you find as useful, than the extra effort is definitely worth it. There simply isn't a tool like Keybase out there anyway. They literally solved the WOT issues related to PGP, and now they are adding some extra features which can potentially lead to other use cases. There are always upsides and downsides to anything. Imho, the upsides here might be justified, given the unique position that keybase is in.

So FUD. You're complaining about FUD.

Otherwise known as "things that make ordinary consumers (ones without the time or desire to get deep knowledge about something) choose competing alternatives".

To put it bluntly, this seems like your own irrational biases against a technology than any real issue. Having a crypto wallet tied to an identity management service does make perfect sense because of the reasons detailed in the article.

Where is this risk you speak of? Can you articulate it in any way? "Flogging"? Not anymore than they're flogging Hacker News or Facebook or Reddit by having an ID verification hook into them (complete with corporate logos!)

Hell, they already let you add Bitcoin (that thing that's only ever supposedly used for scams and drugs if the cynics are to be believed) and ZCash addresses for verification.

If the people you recommended Keybase to weren't turned off by having those front and center, it's likely they won't be turned off by this either. Take a deep breath.

Keybase is also an identity tool, and I see value in having proof of identity when making crypto transactions.

That's great--but I don't care about what value you see when making cryptocurrency transactions. I care about the security and uptime of my services, which is why we started using Keybase in the first place.

If they wanted to build some whateverthing that leverages Keybase for identity? Sure, go nuts, I think it's silly but it's not my time. But injecting it "into their apps"? No. These are tools for production, for me, and were developed with certain explicit and implicit promises. I see cryptocoin junk being shoved into production tools as a break of those promises.

> That's great--but I don't care about what value you see when making cryptocurrency transactions.

So... don't use it? I probably don't use 99% of the functionality in the software installed on my computer.

It sounds like you just have an axe to grind with anything relating to cryptocurrency.

AFAIK Keybase's clients are all open source. If this is a real problem someone (maybe you?) will fork them and remove the "cryptocoin crap".

I don't understand why you're upset (genuinely, I don't understand) about them adding new features. Are existing features reduced or worsened in some way I don't understand?

Let's say you recommended Slack and your company started using it. Then Slack adds PornHub integration. Wouldn't you be upset? Would you say: "just don't use it"?

Uh...yes? Do you have any idea how many integrations Slack has?

So adding a distributed change/audit log - don't forget, that's all any blockchain really is - is the deal breaker and will cause you to fail audits or break production systems? How is it different from the GPG chain that is the Keybase changelog?

What is it about this change that makes you assume you're going to have to deal with cryptomining et al?

Nobody said they'll be injecting anything in their apps, where did you read that?

I know a bit about how Stellar works, and I can't imagine any kind of software they could "inject" in their apps besides perhaps a way to post a Stellar address into the current merkle-tree they host and a way to fetch that through an API. How is that worse than having a Bitcoin address optionally includable in the same way?

"All while integrating certain Stellar features directly into Keybase's apps."

The rest of their announcement, I legit don't care about. This is the deal-breaker here. You don't need a Big Announcement or to hire more people to add a Stellar address for verification. I know a bit about Stellar as well (granted, you probably know more) but this reads to me as a let's-be-a-wallet game.

And this is worse than having Bitcoin addresses: active functionality versus passive functionality. Difference of kind, yeah?

I think you are making a TON of assumptions here.

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