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Comment by whoisjuan | Hacker News Reader

Any app that asks for your location can and will track you. This is so lucrative that Foursquare pivoted the whole company around the concept of location data as a service (https://enterprise.foursquare.com/).

Fortunately, you just need to revoke the permission (or don't grant it in the first place) if you want to avoid being tracked. If you're concerned about this, I'd definitely suggest doing a quick check of the apps that track your location and disable the permission in the ones that you distrust.

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I will never understand why people leave Location Services on all the time.

I don't even install apps that request location when it isn't necessary for my needs (active geolocation, like mapping if I'm lost, hikes, and such).

For Moviepass, and for the rare cases where I am lost or really need active directions, I turn Location services on. Then, it gets immediately shut off. (Similarly, I keep Bluetooth and NFC off except when in active, intended use.)

In fact, for Moviepass and other apps that require locations, I install them on a secondary phone that I use only for nosy apps. It just stays in the car. (This is a good use for an old phone without a SIM; most apps will run fine over WiFi.)

And when apps want to update and in the process try to add permissions they didn't originally seek and have no business using (e.g. Stubhub, Magnifier, Flashlight+), I just don't let them update.

People have different valuations. I turn on Location Timeline and allow Google to record my location 24x7, because I find it useful to be able to know where I was any arbitrary day or time.

Is it also useful to be contributing to the apathy that our privacy, as a society, isn't worth protecting?

This is a pretty close-minded view on the pros vs cons of sharing any kind of data in return for benefits you value over that raw data.

A negative view, sure. But 'close-minded' implies it's an unexamined decision, and that's certainly not the case for me or many other HN users.

My essential stance on data-gathering (and especially location data or communication metadata) is that it represents an irreversible erosion of privacy, and in many cases compromises the privacy of other people who never consented to share their data.

I've used services that (effectively) traded my data for cash, but I think there's a compelling argument that ill-defined location monitoring is underestimated as a personal risk and acutely underestimated as a source of externalities. This is up for debate, certainly, but 'close-minded' seems to presume the answer and deny the possibility of those externalities.

The pros you get are a luxury, while the cons are an infringement on our privacy.

We're at the point where you sharing your data harms everyone else. For example, if there are 1000 people in a population and 999 willing share all data on themselves, the last holdout doesn't need to offer his data. They can already derive it from based on everyone else's.

cons are an infringement on our privacy.

You have to explain why I'm supposed to care that MoviePass knows where I am when I'm near a theater (i.e. why is this a con). You're acting like this is obvious, but it's not. All your work is ahead of you.

  MoviePass knows where I am when I'm near a theater

That's not the risk -- Moviepass knows you are there at that time simply by your usage metrics.

The problem is that (1) other apps have Location access while you have Location services on if you have ever granted that privilege, including only at install time, and (2) few people have the presence of mind to turn Location on and back off promptly so that it's only on when the user is conscious of it.

Because they give that information to 3rd parties who have a larger database about you in which to add it. Privacy is a basic human right and everyone wants it. You wouldn't willingly offer all data about yourself and livestream a camera of yourself 24/7 for everyone to see. I also already gave you a reason on how this harms people who don't want to give up any data on themselves.

The degree is the difference and it's a big one. We all trade privacy for other benefits all the time. If the right to privacy is fundamental, then surely I can claim the right to trade that privacy for something else, too.

(Note: we all do this all the time in both explicit and implicit ways. We give away private data to obtain loans, we invite people into our homes and to view our bodies, we tell important secrets to build relationships. Privacy is valuable, and we use it like it's valuable. That's what's going on here, too.)

I too choose privacy and battery life over the convenience of leaving location on all the time.

With a motion coprocessors (Apple's M7-11) there is not that much battery drain.

Oh that's cool, but I have an Android. GPS drains the battery.

> I will never understand why people leave Location Services on all the time

Because I barely value my location privacy, and I get a bunch of useful features out of some of the apps I let have it?

One thing that is clever about MoviePass, is that in order to use their membership, one must have location services activated at least for a brief instant every time they are going to the movie. Indeed, you need to “check in” in the app when you’re within a 100 yard radius of the theater in order to be able to charge the ticket price to the MoviePass-provided payment card. Odds are, most people won’t want (or remember) to turn location services on and off every time they purchase a ticket.

iOS 11 introduced the ability to allow apps to only access your location while you're actively using the app. Using this method should be a good mitigation.

Unfortunately apps don’t care. Waze lingers up to 40 minute after traveling in the background and that’s with supposed in app only mode.

From Apple: "When Location Services is active, a black or white arrow icon appears in the status bar."

If Waze is using it for up to 40 minutes after traveling, you need to decide if you want to know where the cops are or if you want Google to know where you are.

The colored location bar on top stays active too.

I always force quit Waze at the end of the trip so that it (1) stops tracking me and (2) I don't waste my phone's battery life on tracking me

Unless I'm mistaken they don't have access to your location while running in the background. Running != access to location.

GPS mapping apps can enter into an “active backgrounder” mode, where the app is active in the background.

It is one of the few app categories that can do that; the other is VOIP.

But doesn't the status bar remain green while an app is doing that?

Mine is clearly set to only "While Using" on iOS 11.

I don't see why it's surprising that MoviePass tracks your location when you open the app to look up movies or check in. Would that not be obvious?

I find that I often check the movie times using the application from my house or my office. I'm sure it captures that brief window as well.

With the Android app I was able to check in from more than a mile away (multiple times)

and any app that asks for wifi names or network connection info is also tracking your location

can't turn those off though on android

Can’t get that info from iOS...

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