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Comment by hestipod | Hacker News Reader

Well there is the rub...I can't do the hobbies I enjoy because of physical health or money or both. The other things that might provide SOME diversion or evolve into new hobbies aren't accessible here because I am isolated rurally. Driving for an hour requires borrowing a car, paying for gas and expenses and fearing a breakdown which I would have to pay for, creating more pain with the 2 hours of travel which sucks up my endurance window and is a net loss. When you live in a city a 5-10min tram ride somewhere is a lot easier to endure and accesses so much more.

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I'm not in your boat, but you're perfectly describing my wife. I don't know why life has to be so hard for some people. I don't have any advice - just wanted to validate you and let you know someone out here 'gets it'. Just keep doing the best you can with whatever is possible each day.

I understand that it isn't an easy road but nothing is.

Gardening or photography is a hobby you can start yourself with almost no cost and health isn't a real barrier. If there is no club, you could start one. Or maybe join the mall walking club which may also help with your physical health. There is something out there for you. You're worth it so put forth the effort. The return will surprise you.

I know you mean well, and I am not trying to argue for sport or be difficult, but it's not as simple as you imagine. I have health issues that prevent me from spending time down in the dirt gardening and I don't find it appealing at all. Photography requires infrastructure and equipment. Walking is a big problem for me because of the surgeries and fallout.

I really wish people would not do the "you have to work at it and it's worth it" thing as if someone in my position is lazy or doesn't want to have a better life. They keep throwing out things they think are so simple and obvious but can't seem to accept there are real, practical reasons certain things won't work. In addition you can't force someone to like something they simply don't just because it's "available". Please believe me that none of this is my lack of effort or attitude. Nobody would choose this life if there was a realistic way out but many people live like this. I do the best I can but it's crushing.

This is going to sound stupid, but if you can't do hobbies you previously enjoyed are you just never going to find new hobbies?

If you have no in-person interaction that you know you need, are you just never going to go find it? Where do other people get it in your area? Church, probably, since you're rural. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you aren't interested in religion, absolutely hate where you're at, and probably the people, too, but I beg you to call local churches until you find one that can help you attend and where you feel welcomed.

Ugh, the "go to church" suggestion.

Yes, I get that a lot too, and it makes me more depressed. If you're someone who's in the process of extricating themselves from a religious upbringing, this isn't a fun thing to deal with in addition to "regular" mental health issues.

What is helping me is:

* removing toxic parts of my life as much as I can.

* proper diagnosis and medication (the revelation of a late ADHD-Inattentive diagnosis is life-changing)

* meditation (Kabat-Zinn style mindfulness, warning that in my experience not being treated or missing your meds for anxiety/depression may make this a frustration engine)

* forgiving myself for not being more proactive (the hardest one)

* focusing on getting my son out to play with other kids (helps meet people with the same time-schedules)

What doesn't help me:

* Not taking my meds.

* Making extravagant plans. (Big things are more intimidating and generate avoidance).

* Cursing the past. (Mistakes were made)

* Going to church. (Attending a ritual gathering as a nonbeliever can be an incredibly isolating experience.)

The point that you highlight going to church as a non-religious person as the best way to deal with isolation emphasizes the real issue at play here: that civil society is increasingly non-existent to the point that non-religious social outlets outside of work don't exist for the majority of people

Have non-religious social outlets ever existed in any great numbers though? I can't think of any widespread institutions that provided community other than sheer physical proximity, which itself would largely be a 1:1 relationship with church membership in most places.

Fraternities, Unions, Social Clubs.

Admittedly, the largest Fraternities have religious components themselves (the Freemasons, especially), and Churches themselves at times have fought the big Fraternities as "competition", but arguably the big Fraternities are kept separate and distinct from Churches for strong reasons, and tend to sway more secular with the biggest religious ties being calls to charitable service.

I've often wondered if it was possibly past time for a revival of the Oddfellows in America, which at one point was a huge entirely secular Fraternity (whose biggest remaining impact is a lot of fascinating 1900s-ish architecture in most major American cities): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Order_of_Odd_Fello...

There's also a lot of interesting similarities to classic Fraternities/Unions/Social Clubs reflected in cosplay/fandom Unions and Social Clubs such as the multiple Starfleet Fleets (including Barfleet), the 501st, the Ghostbusters Locals, etc. Admittedly fandom/cosplay can be their own religion of a sort, but such things are extremely secular.

Hey, good luck. The hard thing about recommending hobbies to strangers is that one don't know them so the only chance to guess is to project what I like. Moreover your issue is not lack of hobby, but being alone in the house due to logistic reasons.

When I was lonely and isolated (less then you), arguing on the Internet helped. It is not same as real communication and friends, but it more then nothing. Keeps you from loosing it entirely. Writing is communication too, altrough less effective.

Another weird thing was that when I finely had chance to communicate, it was tiring because I basically forgot how to do it. If that happens to you too, that is ok and normal. Don't get discouraged when talk won't go smoothy (as I did).

I wish you good luck, that something around you shows up.

Hey man,

I also have some permanent health issues (not as serious as yours probably, but still) and I totally get the frustration of people applying wishful thinking to your situation without having any experience with the kinds of problems you're facing (as is happening in this thread).

I know it's not what you asked for, but feel free to drop me a line anytime if you need to talk to someone who has at least a slight chance of getting it. I can be reached on gmail under the same username.

I get you have good intentions, but be careful not to assume you have a handle on what the physical health troubles are, nor that you understand the exact circumstances preventing action that seem easily surmountable to you. It can be more harmful than good to suggest stuff like this if you've missed the mark in your assumptions, speaking as someone who experiences a lot of well-wishing advice for similar reasons.

Sometimes it's better to listen than explain.

I explain it like this: if you're "normal," for lack of a better word, interacting with someone with major depression can feel like debugging a program that is currently in an undefined state. Nothing makes sense, and your rules for how a program should behave are irrelevant, because depression makes me think in ways that are completely bananas (both to you and me, oddly enough). But, you can't just restart the process, so take your time understanding what's going on before acting; sometimes, action is not the right course at all.

I'm not trying to pick on you. I just see this a lot on HN when someone brings up major disorders -- "just work out! just garden! just be happy!" -- and it's troublesome in general, not just you.

Alternately, people who give advice likely experienced similar issues and overcame them. I sure have, and would echo the same recommendations, but like I was, OP just gives excuses why he can't do the simplest thing like recalibrating hobby expectations.

OP is reaching out for compassion but with such a tiny social net only internet strangers can help, and what else can they do but suggest their own life experiences? It sounds like OP has no family or friends to interact with let alone get help with tasks, so if he wants a good avenue of support then he should contact a local church asking for a ride to attend then get to know people there.

I disagree with this notion advice is mostly rooted in similar experience. 15 years of anecdata anyway have shown me differently. It's mostly rooted in well meaning of course, and I am not implying people are being malicious or anything. People do commonly ignore relevant issues that change the playing field in any given situation.

Also when you do meet others in bad situations that have overcome there is a strong survivor bias thing going on around them which leads to people being upset/confused when it doesnt work for you. You must simply be doing it wrong, right? People seem to often to get bothered/angry/offended with you if their advice doesn't work or isn't applicable. I understand the psychological root of this, but it's still disheartening and kills me when I see people feel like people like me simply don't want to be happy or have lives. I didn't post begging for a friend to cure my lonliness. I have far more pressing issues. I posted because it's relevant to my life and cant do much else atm.

You have mentioned church a couple of times and I am not ignoring it...I just don't know how to respond without offending you or someone else. It's just not my thing...I have tried it more than once. I don't want to debate or upset anyone. I probably worry too much about what others think of me...but it does make me feel worse to spread any bad feeling. I didn't downvote you either and always worry people will think I am giving them a "SCREW YOU WRONG" karma mark when I see their posts greyed. Sort of wish downvotes weren't a thing honestly.

Yes, I certainly appreciate you downplaying the mental issues I've had to overcome. I've certainly had external intervention but I feel that you suggesting my recovery is simply "survivor bias" is diminishing my experience in favor of making yourself feel better.

Your problems-barring your physical issues-aren't unique; you need your community, you need hobbies, but you say "Been saying for ages I am gonna lay the story out here and hope for some miracle plan" as if someone else is going to tell you your story. How will your life be fixed unless you fix it?

And don't mistake my church suggestion for preaching religion. If your community has social events you could otherwise attend, go for it.

> Sort of wish downvotes weren't a thing honestly.

I was fine with them until the graying out thing, which turned them into basically a demonstration of the power of silencing. All it takes is four people to consider your comment unworthy, and you might as well have not said anything at all; it's oddly futuristic, to use a safe adjective, that the more people who dislike your comment the more difficult it becomes to read. What if we applied that to other situations? Four people dislike what you're saying; please wear this mask that makes it difficult to hear your words. And now that you're wearing that mask, people are more likely to not like anything else you say and avoid your corner of the room. If you're really problematic, we have a safe space in another room, or we've developed technology that completely mutes you but it still sounds to you like you're talking. Enjoy the party!

If downvotes were intended for removing problematic discussion, that's one thing, but HN's position is that downvotes are fine for disagreement, too. So if you say something disagreeable, you are slowly filtered to irrelevance. The macro of that arrangement, which optimizes for discussion that the community will find acceptable and agreeable at the expense of contrarian thought or opinion, is apparently lost on everyone who I've discussed it with, so I've stopped bothering for the most part. Graying out of downvoted comments is honestly a symptom that contributes to perceptions of the valley, based on my conversations with people outside of this community -- I was present for a conversation about Thiel among midwest tech folks, and it was specifically brought up as cancerous to thought.

Good news is there are stylesheets that disable it. It isn't going anywhere, so if you feel like I do, adapt. That and showdead are useful.

That's why I upvote most of the grayed out comments. I hope other people do it too.

>Alternately, people who give advice likely experienced similar issues and overcame them.

Think about this like if someone was talking about fiscal matters. If you had someone who worked their way into the middle class telling poor people helpful tips to do the same, what is the chance they are overlooking factors in their success that aren't easily replicated for others or which was more based on luck?

I grew up in the middle of rural nowhere where most my old classmates hold minimum wage jobs if they have jobs. I worked hard to get ahead, but I was also assisted by things outside of my control. Natural talents and lucky opportunities being the two largest ones. Socially it's the opposite.

For example, contacting a stranger to ask for a ride can be as difficult for someone as learning a new programming language. Some can do it with no difficulty, others have a major block. What happens when someone tries a new hobby and realizes they are still isolated, even from the community of others engaged in the same hobby?

Underlying a lot of this, be it for making friends or finding a career, is the issue of learned helplessness.

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