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During my childhood, my father's most of the income went into repaying loans. Luckily, we had our own house, so we didn't need to worry about getting homeless. But I remember I rarely got to spend money on any kind of "luxury". By luxury, I mean simple stuff like a icecream cone or a baloon.

The effect it had on me is quite wierd. On one hand, I always wish to earn more so as to not have to go through that phase again, while on the other hand, I never care about spending money. Even now that we have more money, I rarely spend on clothes, fancy food, gadgets or whatever that is not necessity. That phase of borderline poverty has made me frugal for life.

Yeah, I totally get this. I have no idea why people want stuff. I have one computer, one phone, one guitar, and so on. If I could own just one set of clothing, I'd be happy with that.

It isn't frugality for me, it's just that I can't stand clutter and really, what I consider. I think I missed whatever the definition of having things means.

I guess it depends on you knowing what you want. I wouldn't drop money on a spanking new car even though I can afford to and all my peers drive Audis or whatever, but I feel just OK with my over 100k Civic just because I like not having a loan on my head. I didn't get the latest iPhone (still on the 5s) because a beautiful new phone means nothing to me; I'm just fine with a less expensive, smaller and slower model.

OTOH, If I see nice clothes or shoes I definitely do consider getting them if I don't have something similar already, or different enough from existing clothes to give a different look. I won't say no to a road trip, or a weekend trip with my gf/friends. Or to eating at a fancy restaurant occasionally.

:) and, to some extent, this is kind of funny, because where I live having a Civic is a sign that you do have a expensive car, and people treat it like "just more 10k bucks and you could be in an Audi".

Do you live somewhere where a car is not necessary/totally unaffordable? I think the OP is probably living in the US, and navigating most areas is almost impossible without a car. Wonder what the alternative to a cheap civic is other than no car :)

In my city there's a fair public transport, but in the country as a whole, no. Even bigger cities lack good transportation.

But cars are expansive, specially considering the average income, and having a Civic or a Corolla puts you in the top, with Audis being the "I'll never afford to have one of those".

Maybe like a Chevy Spark or something? I actually just got one of those for my wife and it was only $7k with 50k miles on it.

Hah, I will not deny that it's probably very cost efficient, but 7k is only a cheap car relative to a new car. A cheap early 2000's late 1990's civic that runs is somewhere around 5 times less than that.

Yeah but this car was three years old and was certified pre-owned, with low mileage. You're suggesting one that is pushing two decades of service. We looked at those kind of cars too and it was obviously a worse choice unless you love rust and frequent repairs.

I'm not suggesting either. I drive a car from 2001 that has spent most of its life in the US north-east. Rust can be an issue but you would be surprised how many cars don't have major rust problems. However, if I had an option of getting a more expensive car (7k was out of my budget) when I was looking for one, I would have gone with something more like what you mentioned. I'm just throwing out the idea that 7k isn't necessarily in the same price range as an old civic. It's definitely rolling the dice with an old car but I have only had to pay for one battery and one alternator (notice I said pay for... in all actuality I received a free battery and had to have an extra alternator replaced as the shop I went to was garbage but owned up to it).

Yeah, the competitors were about the same price but in sorry shape.

Anyway, the prices kind of scale together. If you bought a twenty-year-old Spark/Matiz it would be cheaper than the comparable Civic. Also, I don't know where the OP lives, but the US has pretty lax regulations that let people drive around old cars for longer than many countries.

> I wouldn't drop money on a spanking new car even though I can afford to and all my peers drive Audis or whatever, but I feel just OK with my over 100k Civic just because I like not having a loan on my head.

Needing a loan ≠ can afford to. Many people do not understand this simple fact.

Really... so you wouldn't take out a mortgage to buy your house?

I’m not entirely sure, maybe I will do that someday, but I’m certainly not comfortable with the idea. And I find it interesting how normal that is and how people don’t seem to think it’s a big deal.

I can afford to buy a car outright, but why would I? Most new cars have terms of zero interest for several years. If I can invest my money elsewhere while taking advantage of a zero-percent loan, why wouldn't I?

Because even leasing a new car at zero interest will end up more expensive than buying an older car outright.

I haven't, but would consider it. But I wasn't talking about a house.

You need a place to live. A fancy car as opposed to one you can buy outright? Not so much.

At some point you own enough things that they own you. You can't do anything without taking all that stuff into consideration. This can make for a difficult situation if you and your partner don't agree.

My ideal living situation is an empty house; my wife feels most comfortable surrounded by things.

"At some point you own enough things that they own you."

What a profound statement. Thanks for sharing.

Maybe you're just conditioned to not want things from your childhood. I remember wanting to have nice sneakers in school because all the other kids had nice sneakers and they'd make fun of you if you don't. I'd spend time in footlocker just looking at the stuff they had or sift through my eastbay catalogs but never buy anything. I wasn't happy that we couldn't afford them but after seeing that we had to take out loans and borrow money just to make ends meet, my desire for sneakers quickly dissipated. Even to this day when I can afford nicer sneakers I don't really want them anymore...or anything else for that matter. I feel like I've completely inhibited desires for most things, except whenever I experience quality that matters, I see the point of spending money, but it's hard to know what they are until you experience them. For example, a nice mattress is a hugely valuable investment and quality actually matters, but I never felt the difference until I crashed at my friend's house and slept in his bed. I'm curious what are some things where a more expensive version of the same thing is actually 10x better than the cheap version?

This is what happened to me. At some point, I realised that asking for something puts more pressure on my already stressed parents. I actually regretted having demanded few things. At first I forcibly stopped myself from wanting to have things, and eventually the desire simply vanished.

If you walk a lot, good sneakers make a huge difference. My knees are... well, but ideal, but much better, since I got better sneakers that cost more money.

I am the sort of person who seldom cares about clothes & fashion. The only fashion I cared about is cargo pants. Cargos because they have a high utility value. Many pockets, which help me carry a lotta stuff around. I always carry a pocket diary & pen so that whenever some idea strikes me, I immidietely jot it down. Of late, I've started buying denim shirts & Woodland shoes coz I work in an IT company, and it's about time I start presenting myself well.

When I walk in a shop, I just see many things that I do not need. Other people worry that they won't get enough vacation by ocean, the latest car model, or the most fashionable clothes... I just laugh at such suggestions. I have a roof above my head, as much food as I need, a computer and a fast internet connection -- what else would I really need?

On the other hand, for a long time in my life, when I saved some money, I had absolutely no idea what to do with it. That was a kind of a problem no one around me had during my childhood. I wish I had found websites like "early retirement extreme" a few decades ago, because I was the kind of person who could quite simply achieve it. (Instead I lost the extra money taking bad investment advice from various "financial advisors".) Other people seem to have an irresistible urge to increase their expenses when their income increases; I don't feel this urge.

Someone else could've said that having a roof over one's head, a computer and a fast internet connection are laughable suggestions - why would you care about them, when you can spend money on traveling around the world and the internet connection is usually all over the places for free?

I actually worry about not having enough vacation, because experiencing other people's cultures and mindsets are the most important things to me. What else would I really need?

To each his own. Some people care about looking good or commuting comfortably. Most people exaggerate these costs - that's another matter.

>I actually worry about not having enough vacation, because experiencing other people's cultures and mindsets are the most important things to me. What else would I really need?

Ah yes, the infamous two weeks where for a huge GHG release, we can experience other cultures and come back home changed.

I'm actually from Poland where I've negotiated at least 6 weeks of paid vacation. When combined with some national holidays I usually end up with 2 months a year of paid vacations. Not counting weekends.

I know my priorities and I've optimized my work/life balance for them.

Man, this is infuriating. Had this been happening in a welfare state such as in most European countries, your family would have kept a roof above their head thanks to proper public housing, and your parents would have received enough money to serve their kids 3 meals a days. Not saying that's living the life, but people in the US just don't understand that stories like yours do NOT have to happen.

I find that a little historical perspective opens me up to the fact that things were different not too long ago, and the current situation is the result of concrete political actions in the not-too-distant past, which implies that concrete political actions in the present could also change the course of things.

The Community Health Act of 1963 was supposed to transfer mentally-ill patients from psychiatric hospitals to community-based centers, but "only half of the proposed centers were ever built; none were fully funded, and the act didn’t provide money to operate them long-term."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Mental_Health_Act

During the 80s "HUD's budget authority was reduced from $74 billion to $19 billion. Such alleged changes is claimed to have resulted in an inadequate supply of affordable housing to meet the growing demand of low-income populations. In 1970 there were 300,000 more low-cost rental units (6.5 million) than low-income renter households (6.2 million). By 1985, the advocacy group claimed that the number of low-cost units had fallen to 5.6 million, and the number of low-income renter households had grown to 8.9 million, a disparity of 3.3 million units."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_Sta...

I buy things that become more valuable over time. Investing has become a fun way for me to "spend" that cash I otherwise hoard. Spending money on anything else is very difficult for me.

I spend most of my money on books. I rarely ever spend money on anything else. Living as a kid with my grandma had a huge impact on things I did in my later years. We were poor but always had access to books.

I did that until I felt like I had collected enough books to last me a lifetime. Once in a while I'll still order one that has good information on a topic I am passionate about. I have eclectic tastes and libraries usually don't have the information I need (outside of a particular one in Santa Fe, far from where I live).

Don't you have access to libraries ?

One problem for me, living in Denmark, is that all the books at the library are in Danish. I prefer to read books in their original language, or at least in an English or German translation, which are usually markedly superior to the Danish translations.

If I want a book in English, I either have to special order it at the library and wait for a week to get it, or I have to buy it myself.

Ebooks via irchighway.

So many of us are in debt, but I would definitely encourage you to think about re-shifting your own paradigm if it's comfortable to do so:

If you would like entertaining reading to assist in your own building of a new mental model around money:

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/

(written by a programmer who retired early and is part of the "financial independence" movement/blogosphere)

I identify with this so much. I grew up a single child to a single mom. She did her best but there was never any "saving". She didn't have a savings account, she had nothing. So now that I'm older my first priority is saving money, which is why I'm in less debt in comparison to my peers I think. I spend a lot, but I do it in intervals, and my goal is to eventually learn how to invest. I think most people my age take to the importance of investing too much, and abstract away the savings because they think they will be investing in the future.

I don't think about money at all either. I realize it's important, but it's importance has never consumed me. If I don't think about it, I actually spend less. If I think about it, I totally panic. I've saved money by not thinking about it.

I also have trouble eating! I just buy a week's worth of food at a time, twice a month, so typically I have only two week's worth of food per month, and that results in about 2 meals per day-- small ones. Sometimes I don't eat at all because of my appetite issues. I just take multivitamins to supplement those days, as well as extra Vitamin D3 and Magnesium.