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Comment by adamsanders | Hacker News Reader

Zelle's biggest hurdle will be growing their community. Currently, there's insufficient feature differentiation from Venmo to warrant migration. None of my friends are on Zelle, so there's no reason for me to be.

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> Currently, there's insufficient feature differentiation from Venmo to warrant migration.

Well, it doesn't require a venmo account and doesn't require three days of waiting. Right there removes any reason for me to use venmo ever again.

I just used it this week to help a friend with rent! Just signed into my bank, punched in his phone number, and sent the money. Couldn't be happier, which is huge considering I normally hate my banking software.

Alternatively, I never started using Venmo because I never trusted a third party to have my banking data. Now I use Zelle because it's backed by my bank, and since basically everyone I know now has it by default from their bank, I have seen pretty high adoption rates with my friends.

> I never trusted a third party to have my banking data

How do you pay bills? I know some banks offer their own bill pay services, but I've never tested them out, and use the utilities' sites.

After being extremely hesitant to do it for years, I set up bill pay through my bank, partly to save on stamps (some of my utilities have truly atrocious online payment systems that drove me away). It has no fees, and for some utilities, it actually connects with their billing systems well enough for it to notify you of bills and let you view them, right through your bank's website, and then schedule the payment. With my municipal bill, I still get a paper bill, but I can enter the amount and my bank will handle issuing the payment, still without a fee.

Reading this makes me realise how good Australia is in this regard.

We have 'BPay', which every* bank supports from within their apps, and almost all bills support. We have instant intra-bank transfers and next-day inter-bank transfers.

Additionally, the big 4 banks (yup, we have just 4 big banks) have mobile payments, so you can link your mobile number to an account and receive payments into it. It's painful if you're with different banks, but the net result is that no-one* here uses PayPal, et. al, to transfer money to each other.

And now, we've just had PayID roll out, which is instant payments based on email or phone number to any of the banks (I think most banks in AU are participating, but it's backed by our Reserve Bank), which is a huge game changer and pretty much negates the need for a third-party to do this for us.

> Reading this makes me realise how good Australia is in this regard.

I'm from Sweden, I started paying bills through my internet bank over 20 years ago. And it was never difficult or a big deal, because the existing giro-based bill system that every vendor uses and has been using since the 1960's, slotted right into it, with zero technical integration required from the payees.

Moving to the US was like stepping into a time machine when it comes to dealing with banks and bills, it's ridiculously backwards. And Americans generally have no idea how behind they are. It's so fucking frustrating having this discussion every single time.

LOL. Spend some time dealing with French banks and then we can talk about American banks. France is a place where people actually write checks for things and you have to physically visit your specific branch to accomplish certain transactions. The concept of “branch banking” hasn’t made it to France yet. Even withdrawing cash from a bank requires an appointment (if you want to withdrawal over a few hundred Euros for instance.)

French banks are a nightmare conpared to American ones.

Traditional bill pay services have probably reached peak adoption, and will slowly tail off. Paying bills directly with the vendor / service provider with a credit/debit card is growing (in the U.S.).

Agreed. Also, incorrect charge? Call the utility. If that fails, call the credit card, and ask for a “charge back”, and tell them you called the bank. Problem solved, and the bank extracts a cut of the reversed charge from the vendor. (In the US)

Also, you probably get cash back on the normal payments, and other bill pay methods let the utility pocket that (plus the credit card company’s cut).

Having said all that, I wish the govt would ban credit card transaction fees, and provide a secure anonymous alternative, but I don’t make the rules, and, as a consumer, I pay the 1-3% transaction fee tax either way...

I pay bills using credit cards whenever possible. For the very few that don't, or that charge exorbitant fees for doing so (e.g. rent), I use Chase's bill-pay service.

Always use a throwaway account for third party services with debiting privileges and keep no money in it normally. Yes ACH has a trail but why take the risk of having to fight it out.

Zelle’s user base can be every customer of every bank that supports it. Far larger than Venmo can ever be. And it’s slowly being embedded in each partner bank’s app.

http://www.tearsheet.co/payments/zelle-is-winning-the-peer-t...

I've never even heard of Zelle until now, everyone I know has venmo installed.

You may have not heard of them, but their uptake is accelerating, and they are becoming the defacto US peer to peer funds transfer system.

"Zelle, U.S. banks’ answer to mobile payment services like PayPal and Venmo, claims that nearly 100,000 consumers, on average, are signing up for its service per day. The company also painted a picture of growing traction, noting it processed over 247 million payments in 2017, an increase of over 45 percent year-over-year, totalling $75 billion in peer-to-peer payments, up from $55 billion the year prior."

"Today, Zelle says there are more than 60 financial institutions on board, including 50 percent of U.S. demand deposit accounts, and it has expanded its partner ecosystem to include ACI Worldwide, CGI, D3 Banking Technology and IBM. They joined existing partners FIS, Fiserv, and Jack Henry & Associates."

"In PayPal’s third quarter 2017 earnings, the company reported that Venmo processed approximately $30 billion in payments over the past 12 months. Or, in other words, Zelle is now processing more than double the payment volume of Venmo."

https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/29/u-s-banks-venmo-alternativ...

It's being shoved down people's throats with a massive marketing push combined with Wells Fargo (and maybe other banks) disallowing you to transfer money to another wells fargo account (not owned by you) unless you use the app. Basically forcing you on the platform

I don't know much about Venmo vs. Zelle specifically, but a startup with marketing funded by VC money could easily beat a consortium of banks with little marketing. Zelle recently pivoted to a dedicated app, possibly because being buried inside bank apps wasn't very discoverable.

Venmo was that startup, acquired by PayPal, and now being trounced by said consortium.

I never installed Venmo. Someone sent me money via Zelle, and I had a couple clicks on my bank's website to accept it. Already a convert.

In this case, it was family, mind you. Which is a good thing, because up until reading this, I'd have assumed Zelle had fraud protection.

With Venmo do you still have to wait a few days while it transfers to your actual bank account? That's a big enough reason for me to always use Zelle or physical cash. With Zelle it's literally seconds until I can see the funds.

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