Baltimore police were stealing drugs from Baltimore dealers and selling the stolen drugs to dealers in Philadelphia.
Hard to believe actions like that were taking place in the U.S. Sounds like something straight out of a Narcos episode.
Hard to believe actions like that were taking place in the U.S. Sounds like something straight out of a Narcos episode.
Is it? I'm a Canadian and everything I hear about the US police terrifies me - SWATing leading to innocent people being killed, unarmed black men being shot, no-knock warrants, civil forfeiture, the impossibility of convicting police for just about anything. If the worst thing they were doing was selling drugs that'd be an improvement as far as I can tell.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2012/06/29/saga_of_a_toront...
Here’s a reminder: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dziekański_Taser_inci...
The Braidwood Inquiry concluded the use of Tasers in the case wasn't justified. The officers were charged with perjury (not murder, but at least something). The RCMP issued an apology to Dziekański's mother.
Compare this to the response to fatal shootings in the US, and it's very clear to me I prefer this line of the sand.
Whoa, those cops surely have a serious level of political backing.
This baffles me always to no end - the flame with which the officials would defend cops who went seriously out of borders. Every time in every locale.
One part of it is probably guns: even in states with strong gun control, there are plenty of them in the hands of hoodlums, so voters appreciate the Dirty Harry approach to dealing with them.
But to me that doesn't quite explain why cops seems to have such semi-formal impunity (see for example http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/01/get..., http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/01/pol... and http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/01/pol...).
Of course we can guess various reasons, voters like police, cops stick together etc, prosecutors and police work together etc. But those things are true in other countries too.
And the middle and upper classes--the only voices ever represented in media (excluding the current endless spate of articles interviewing poor Trump voters)--of course they not only have no problem with the police, they don't know anyone who's been shaken down. As a general rule, at least.
So, you look at the predominant voices in the media, and they have no problem with the corruption of cops, and they don't know anyone who does.
Gosh, even my nominally progressive sister goes into any discussion about police brutality with an assumption that whoever got shot deserved it. And she's generally aware of social issues!
The biases are baked in so deep, and so uncomfortable to unpack, it's easier to just to turn away from it all.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_police_ex...
Is it really widespread in Canada?
Yah.
Here’s the video: https://youtu.be/1CR_k-dTnDU
That said, kids like to make things up too, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what happened here.
When I was in kindergarten, I once lied about seeing a snake in the schoolyard. I don't remember why or how, I just told a stupid lie like every stupid kid (which is the same thing as every kid) does all the time. Now, no one believed me and I don't think that anyone else in the world remembers what I said, but imagine if they did. Imagine the grown-ups had taken it seriously and called 911 (well, 125 realistically , it wasn't in North America). The city would have started a large investigation to find the missing killer snake, the media would have printed article after article reporting on how people should be scared of sending their kids to school when there are dangerous animals on the loose and no one does anything about it, recess would have been cancelled, ... Imagine a shark scare, but on a larger scale. Every now and then, some grown-up would have asked me if I was sure I saw a snake, and due to the aforementioned stupidity, plus the fact that I was afraid of getting in trouble, I would have nodded yes. It would have been The News until something else distracted people from it.
None of this happened because no one believed me in the first place. But if it had happened, should I have been held criminally responsible for all the trouble?
That's my point. Kids lie all the time for all sorts of reasons. If you want to start holding them responsible through criminal justice system, you would have to send every one of them to jail.
I recognize nothing in this story in my town's local police (we're about 65,000 population, and the cops are quite relaxed and civil as a default).
> I recognize nothing in this story in my town's local police (we're about 65,000 population, and the cops are quite relaxed and civil as a default).
I was stopped without explanation in Andover, KS (population < 12000 as of 2010). Officers harassed me and threatened to arrest me when I would not allow them to search my vehicle. They claimed that they smelled pot in the car. I Was not a pot smoker and was borrowing the vehicle from an anti drug family member while mine was in the shop. The claim was bogus and they were clearly trying to intimidate me.
In a neighboring city (Wichita), police responding to a 911 call that I placed after being robbed at gunpoint played good-cop-bad-cop with me. They suspected that my roommate and I were selling pot (we weren’t) and refused to press charges on the assailant because they assumed we were withholding information. I tried to call them on it, but I was unsuccessful. They didn’t give a shit about us because of the assumptions they made coming into the situation.
FWIW, I have two friends who are cops. I do not think all cops are bad people. Your dismissal of the issue is problematic.
refused to press charges
In my situation, a young woman was killed by a car. So a person is dead, and neither the victim's family and friends, the perpetrator's family or others will really know if justice were served.
That's not making excuses for corruption or the despicable conduct in Baltimore. But sometimes our perception of police conduct goes one way because we haven't walked a mile in their shoes, and don't have the big picture of how their world works.
You are allowing yourself to be misguided if you focus on what gets put on the front page of CNN.
No sane person would want to risk their life on a daily basis, wrestle people into their cars against their will on a daily basis, and be subject to the scrutiny you describe in your post, the hatred that is described in other posts, all for a policeman's salary. Literally no sane person would take that deal. Are you about to sign up to be a cop? Hell fucking no.
Without that- you would have died in that car-accident you sometimes get flashbacks to. There is a dentist effect here at work- everybody forgets the negative moments in live, everyone forgets about theire dentist until it hurts again. Police and Emergency services are socially isolated due to that effect.
0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rampart_scandal 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_v._City_of_Oakland
I'm not sure. I'm more familiar with the small town side of society, and I'd guess that it's much easier to hide this sort of behavior in a larger city. There's much less anonymity in a small town, and keeping this sort of behavior going would require "buy in" from the entire police force rather than just a nucleus of corrupt officers. So while the small town police force might be more likely to abuse civil forfeiture against out-of-town drivers, I'd be surprised if this level of corruption targeting residents would be possible in a smaller department.
To take Baltimore as an example: https://civilrights.baltimorecity.gov/civilian-review-board
There is the civilian review board, paid for by city taxes, who do nothing but review cases of police abuse and take said officers to court. That's how stories like the parent story become widely known.
So the question is: would you rather live in Baltimore, where these things are reported AND there are powers that can help you with these problems... or would you rather be in Small Town America where the Sheriff is the de-facto ruler and you ain't got nuthing against him?
---------
Anyway, the main issue with Baltimore cops is that they're grossly underpaid. If they live 30 minutes away in a slightly richer area, they can get a higher-paycheck, AND get higher-respect from the community.
Baltimore cops are in a tough spot right now. Morale is low, paychecks are low, and everyone sees them as villains (especially after "The Wire"). Why be a Baltimore cop when suburbia is safer, pays better, and earns more respect?
As such, the cops who stay in Baltimore are usually the ones who can't leave for whatever reason. "Good Cops" go elsewhere, there's basically a "brain drain" on decent cops in Baltimore, and I'm unsure how the city is supposed to move forward.
Personally, I much prefer my chances in small town America. I'm currently living in the Bay Area, but planning to move to somewhere much smaller. I may be naive, but I have much less fear of systematic corruption of the authorities in smaller towns. Alternatively, as a white male, I may be correct in my personal assessment despite the non-universality of the answer.
I'm not sure how one would go about definitively answering the question of whether the unreported cases of abuse in small towns are more prevalent than the reported plus unreported abuses in the larger cities. But I don't think it should involve "correcting" for the on-the-job differences between rural and city officers. Even if the brain drain and low morale help to explain why the remaining officers are more likely to be abusive, as a citizen I'd still probably be wise avoid those places and prefer locations with more content officers.
Interestingly, there's a globally-recognised phrase - "Only in America".
This honestly seems like exactly the sort of corruption I'd expect to hear about in the US... There's just so much negative press about your government and police that a lot of people wouldn't expect it anywhere other than America.
That's an incredibly feeble-minded and edgy-childish thing to say.
Yet, if corruption happens in African, Middle Eastern, and Asian nationas nobody says "Only in Russia, China, or Saudi Arabia". That's just called normal.
There are European nations that are more corrupt than the USA.
https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_percept...
It means something is so ridiculous, it could only happen in America. It's like when you see people buying a rifle in Walmart - Only in America. Or when they're getting a one-gallon cup of Coke from McDonalds, or drive away from a fuel bowser with the hose still plugged in etc etc. These things can happen elsewhere, for sure, but it's an extremely well-known and common comment to make.
Why not? Everybody else is making it. Besides, it gives the commenter that oh so delicious smug sense of unearned superiority. Besides, everybody else is doing it. Except..
>It's like when you see people buying a rifle in Walmart - Only in America.
People buy rifles in all kinds of stores all over the world so why would Walmart be any kind of exception?
>Or when they're getting a one-gallon cup of Coke from McDonalds,
This literally does not exist.
>or drive away from a fuel bowser with the hose still plugged in
People do this anywhere they are allowed to pump their own gas. FWIW in my 40 years, I've seen the aftermath of this exactly once.
To respond to your other comment:
>I disagree - I don't watch any [mass media]. This honestly seems like exactly the sort of corruption I'd expect to hear about in the US...
Except according to the corruption perception index, the US is less corrupt than most European countries[0] including the likes of France, Portugal and Ireland, and far less corrupt than the vast majority of countries in the world. You claim to not be watching the media but you're getting your false information from somewhere so maybe turn that off too.
[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
An exaggeration in itself but then you go on to support it with claims that are either entirely false or orthogonal to the point. So I corrected you. Yet somehow I'm supposed to be "offended". Since you are so good at internet psychiatry, here's another word for you. Projection.
- Its weird everywhere else in the world to sell firearms in the same store as kids toys, milk and cheese. Weird.
- Gallon cups have indeed existed in promotions at various fast food outlets in the US, maybe not McDonalds I suppose.
- It's extremely rare to have people pull away from a bowser without checking the hose has been put away when you aren't pre-paying for fuel (i.e. many places around the world). However almost every image and video of it posted to car forums etc are from the United States.
- The US government is perceived as corrupt to many people in many nations, and the current office is making that perception greater. That is why people can accept that this level of corruption in Baltimore has happened.
But these were just lighthearted examples, and I digress.
That's a bizarre conclusion but whatever.
>- Its weird everywhere else in the world to sell firearms in the same store as kids toys, milk and cheese. Weird.
It's a giant department store. They sell everything. By saying it is weird, you are projecting your own biases.
>- Gallon cups have indeed existed in promotions at various fast food outlets in the US, maybe not McDonalds I suppose.
Yeah. Not McDonald's. It's almost like I said that. I also have never seen any fast food restaurant with any promotional cup size approaching anything near a gallon.
>- It's extremely rare to have people pull away from a bowser without checking the hose has been put away when you aren't pre-paying for fuel (i.e. many places around the world). However almost every image and video of it posted to car forums etc are from the United States.
Oh you saw it in some pictures in a car forum? Well I guess that settles it then.
>- The US government is perceived as corrupt to many people in many nations, and the current office is making that perception greater. That is why people can accept that this level of corruption in Baltimore has happened.
Yet the link I posted shows the US, like I said, to be perceived as less corrupt than, e.g., France. And Spain. And Japan. And Portugal. And on and on.
>But these were just lighthearted examples, and I digress.
You aren't being "lighthearted" any more than the people you are parroting who originally made these comments were. You are spreading lies and being hateful. You think you are better than "those people" in America so you spew your hatred on the internet. Except most of what you say is false or based on some other crap you, wait for it, read on the internet.
To the downvoters: I'm just devastated you took some of my internet points away. But thanks for reminding me I'm on r/hackernews. Nice "rebuttal"
This is nothing new. These things get exposed quite frequently, and surely happen far more often.
The reason you haven't heard about it is that just doesn't get widely reported when it happens.