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Comment by abalone | Hacker News Reader

You’re throwing words like “naive” around but you don’t cite a shred of evidence. Apple’s encryption is at the device level, i.e. before it ever leaves the device. If they turned it off for China it would be easily observable and instantly reported everywhere.

By all account iMessage is one of the few end to end encrypted messaging systems that works in China. You are almost right about China’s general stance but, if you actually did some research, you’d see so far they have tolerated Apple.

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iCloud users in China must agree to this: “understand and agree that Apple and G.C.B.D. will have access to all data that you store on this service, including the right to share, exchange and disclose all user data, including content, to and between each other under applicable law.”

There is Apple-accessible iCloud data, like anything accessible via iCloud.com. The “all” part of that is probably just over broad.

Like I said, technical people would be able to observe if Apple secretly changed their security architecture for China. Apple would also get sued if they didn’t disclose that your iMessages are no longer end to end encrypted when messaging someone in China. China just hasn’t cracked down on it because it’s not that popular.

Your mental gymnastics trying to mask the obvious regarding China and Apple is astounding. What about Apple makes you put so much faith in them, so as to taint the most logical explanation as "unlikely" especially whilst dealing with China?

China doesn't give two fucks about Apple or privacy. If you are in doubt, please travel there and experience the total blackout of services that refuse the share data with China. China DOESN'T need Apple, Apple needs China. And Apple needs to comply with their rules regardless of your delusions about Apple's piety. Be it health or selfies, the Chinese government shall have ALL data (on Chinese resents) accessible to them. Or Apple can get the fuck out of China - which Apple won't do because of it's fiduciary responsibilities colloquially called "greed". Welcome to reality

Has Apple ever publicly disclosed that they don't follow this aspect of Chinese law?

Since apple hasn't been banned in China, I think that's all the evidence you need to deduce they are following all local laws.

What device level do you speak of? How does one get medical records onto the device? Where does one backup the said data off the device, as is normal with all devices today.

I repeat - your argument is based on cherry picking Apple propaganda. It's like saying "emails stored on Apple devices are encrypted". Which they most certainly are, but if subject to Chinese law, even if Apple's email service were end-to-end encrypted, they'd have to provide encryption keys to the government. So all this "email is encrypted on the iPhone" is marketing fluff

> What device level do you speak of?

iOS devices literally have a hardware security module called the SEP that controls access to sensitive information such as Health data.

> Where does one backup the said data off the device, as is normal with all devices today.

You set a password for this data when you back it up, and the data is encrypted with that password.

But we do not know if it works, do we?

Previous implementations have been crippled in ways that suggests that it could have been done on purpose. Limit the password to few characters and permit unlimited tries on the "secure" hardware. Data recovered in subseconds.

I suggest it was either done on purpose or they are incredibly incompetent. Which alternative do you believe to be true? Either way, why trust them?

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