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Comment by HiroshiSan | Hacker News Reader

I admire those that work menial jobs in order to make a living. Im not sure I'd have the strength to do it myself if I had to. I find it very stoic.

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In all honesty you sound a little disconnected. You'd have the strength to do that, too, if your (children's) livelihood depended on it. It's really not that hard if the other option is being evicted from your house.

Agree with the sibling comment. I've heard that tune (how come your kids don't motivate you, etc) so many times when dealing with crippling depression and anxiety. I have 3 children now and much better mentally, but holy shit did I have my share of trite, flippant advice.

You seem to suggest that my comment was (trite, flippant) depression advice. I'm not entirely sure how you can read my comment as depression advice given that nothing in the thread had anything to do with depression.

It's like

A: Wow I respect people who can lift heavy stuff

B: Oh come on it's just a matter of workout

C: Holy shit I've had my share of trite flippant workout advice but I have myasthenia so workout won't cut it, come on.

(I react a bit strongly because I'd never give depression advice. I have no fucking clue about depression except that well-meant tips from people like me don't help, at best. I stay out of the way and leave depression to trained shrinks and people with experience)

Here's the connection:

A: "Im not sure I'd have the strength to do it myself if I had to" [because I'm depressed / have anxiety issues / am utterly burned out mentally].

B: "You'd have the strength to do that, too, if your (children's) livelihood depended on it. It's really not that hard if the other option is being evicted from your house."

C: You missed the [...] part.

The depression link is in square brackets. Can't say if it applies to 'HiroshiSan, but it applies to some people (to some extent, including myself - I had moments when I was barely hanging by a thread). Some people doubt they'd be able to handle it because they know they lack the psychological strength. And in depression, being threatened ("you have to do it, or else your family starves") may only makes things worse - it might just push someone past their breaking point.

Dont take it too personally. You are right you didnt MENTION depression but a lot of the underlying drivers for the phenomena are just that-- depression and one of the biggest and most painful places is in the arena of parenting. Not clear if you have kids, but divorce, economic hardship and separation create a great deal of pain which can feed things like procastination and rebellion as described in the original post

I was going off on a tangent, your comment merely reminded me of what I was referencing, so I'm sorry to have implied otherwise.

Appreciate that, and I totally understand. Fwiw, sorry for coming at you so hard. All the best to you!

Thats the conventional wisdom. It might work if your kids are in front of you every day crying, but if you are separated from them and have to maintain a mental picture of their need in the same brain, its a disaster.

You think? Some people would just give up. I'm fairly convinced I would. I don't have the mental strength to deal with it.

The thing with menial work is that it doesn't require much mental strength - just get on with it, or, have a boss tell you to get on with it. There's something liberating about it. Which is counter-intuitive because some will associate manual labor with slave labor, communist propaganda, lower-class stuff, unworthy work for unworthy people, that kinda thing - but it really isn't.

One of my siblings, the best educated in our family, had what we'd generally call a good career from university until kids arrived. She then went through a couple of jobs at the schools and once our parents started getting old she moved to kitchen staff & waiting jobs.

Talking it through with her one day, it made great sense. At the end of her shift, once she'd tidied up and set up for the next shift, she would just walk of of the door and there would be no thoughts of work again until she clocked in the next time.

When I was programming my mind was always working, even on holidays ideas would pop up and I'd follow them. I am now in a family business which is with us 24 hours a day. There are times I'm envious of her ability to completely switch off.

I sometimes ponder whether it would be better to accept an unskilled job or trade and leave the intellectual stuff to your spare time.

I ponder that frequently, too. But then I realize that to pull it off, I'd have to somehow move family into the "unskilled job" part of the schedule - so the whole scheme is unworkable.

I have the ability to completely switch off after work. I put my 8 hours in and come home. I don't generally have any thoughts about programming when I am home. I switch to "relaxation mode."

I guess I adapted after working a stressful job at a gas station with lazy coworkers and bosses. I was also going to college and working at the same time. So I guess I needed to be able to leave work at work and do homework at home.

When I come home from work and I do some programming, the next day at work I am generally burnt out and don't do as well as a job if I had spent my time relaxing and resting.

> There are times I'm envious of her ability to completely switch off.

I’m not. For me the hardest part is the switching back on bit. I’d rather not ‘switch off’ if it means having to ‘switch on’ a little while later.

I really don’t like weekends, for example. Not that I don’t like having two days off, but the fact that it is only temporary makes it somehow worse than not having it at all. Like you get a little taste of freedom and then it’s taken away. If given the choice I would rather work 7 shorter days than 5 normal days and a 2 day weekend.

I've done menial jobs; I remember a summer job that involved picking up a little foam square and putting it right-side up on a bit of plastic, one per idk, two or three seconds. It was glorious in a way, I could let the mind wander, listen to a bit of music, and time just flew by. Oh and I got paid too.

I think everyone should do some boring work from time to time.

I just wonder what it'd be like to be unable to take your work home with you. Writing software allows me to do my job from wherever I want/need. Oftentimes that ends up being in my bed or at my desk late a night because I fucked around too much during the day.

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