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Comment by mabbo | Hacker News Reader

The outrage at saying you regret having children seems to me to be evidence that there's a nerve there to hit. It's a bit like accusing 10 supposedly straight people of being secretly gay, and one of them losses their mind screaming denials. 'Methinks he doth protest too much.'

But we've built a society in the west based around worshipping our children. Politicians can do anything if it's "for the children", no matter how draconian or insane. It's rude to ever comment on how someone else chooses to raise their children. It's considered horrible to not do everything you can to make your children happier, better, etc. Better go buy a house with a yard because your kid might want a yard, because everyone knows that kids need yards.

The really interesting question isn't whether it's okay to regret having children- it's what's going to change when society unshackles itself from this strange obsession.

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It's the exact same nerve this story hit, about how the years after having a child tend to be among the most miserable and unhappy for parents (demolishing the fairy tale).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/0...

I remember seeing some of the rage reaction to it online at the time. When a study like that gets that kind of response, you know it's probably hitting close to home for the people responding.

I agree completely with the outrage being a product of people propping up denial of their own dissatisfaction with their decisions. Though I am biased having gone through the homophobic denial thing myself, it seems to be a very common pattern, and can only really only be addressed by society not signally so strongly that everyone "should" be a certain way.

Maybe that is part of it. But I think it has more to do with the enormous responsibility inherent in parenting. Because with parenting you can't just quit. Becoming a parent is equivalent to deciding that for 18 years someone else's life is more important than your own, and if you weren't willing to commit to that then you have made an unpardonable mistake by being a parent.

Now with that said, should parents be able to gripe without repercussions? Absolutely. But griping is not the same as expressing regret, and expressing regret can imply you weren't really up for the job.

> deciding that for 18 years someone else's life is more important than your own

Intrinsically, deep down, I feel in complete agreement that you're right about that statement. And then I stop and think "wait, isn't that the very point I was just trying to make above? That something is wrong with this?"

Why do children have to me more important than parents? Why not 'just as important'? Consider: if we had a friend who had a new boyfriend and constantly put the boyfriend's needs above her own saying 'that's just how relationships work, you put their needs above yours, always', we'd have an intervention for that friend. We'd say that's not healthy, that there has to be give and take, that we all have our own needs that are important too.

But make the other side a child and well, now that's just the right way to do things.

I'm not saying that we're wrong for thinking that- I'm saying we should really look at that deeply and figure out if we're sure that it's right. How far is too far? Are we past that point? Maybe our own happiness should sometimes win out over our children's happiness and that's not a monstrous thing.

It is neither weird nor obsessive.

People don't like hearing "I wish my children were never born", because it sounds a lot like desire to commit homicide.

People also don't like hearing "I wish I were never born", because it sounds a lot like suicide.

I understand the need to talk about things the way they really are. But don't be surprised if regretting life is deeply abhorrent to most.

Hell yeah, there's a nerve to hit.

My first thought isn't about the shitty parent or my own choices, it's about the kid who's a secondary character, or whose mere existence appears to be exclusively a cause of grief for their parents. How does the kid feel? What is being done to ensure the kids aren't fucked up if their caretaker is moping around saying they'd rather have a lifetime of wine parties instead of going to soccer practice twice a week?

Do you also believe the "bullies are just jealous of their victims" story?

The `outrage' (at least the imagined outrage) is that it's considered really unfortunate/unhealthy for your children when you say that you regret having children, because children generally will think themselves to blame.

The rest of your post...I think doth protest too much? Some people have children. Some people don't. We're a product of an evolution that makes many of us want to procreate. Strange obsession? What a bizarre statement.

Secondly, many of the things people complain about are only tangentially and superficially actually related to the child. Every Christmas some parents go to herculean lengths to get the must have toy (or the $900 stroller or only the best school, etc) not because their kid actually wants or needs it, but as a status symbol/achievement among their clique. Humans are imperfect - story at 11.

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