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Comment by DamnInteresting | Hacker News Reader

> I am terrified about giving smartphones to my kids.

Hey smartphone makers, if you're listening: Let me set an alternate PIN that unlocks the phone in a limited access mode, or "kid mode." Only pre-approved apps are available. Only pre-approved contacts can be called/texted. In-game purchases require the more secure PIN. Maybe when the phone is in this mode I can track its location easily, and make it emit a noise. The maximum volume is much lower than normal. A lockout timer auto-locks the phone after X minutes. If the battery dips below 20%, only the voice calling, texting, and tracking will work. Bandwidth caps. Et cetera.

This would also be nice if I ever have to lend my device to a stranger. Smartphone OS makers should be embarrassed that this feature doesn't already exist.

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Windows Phone 8.1 had an amazing feature called Kid's Corner[1]. Galaxy phones have a similar Kids Mode[2].

[1] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/10661/windows-phone...

[2] http://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/apps/kids-mode/

I‘m pretty sure Apple won‘t do that, because they want you to buy your kids their own iPhone.

Why doesn‘t the iPad have this sort of multi-user mode? An iPad is the perfect device for sharing. But no, if you don‘t want your kids to read your emails, you need to buy them their own iPad.

> if you don‘t want your kids to read your emails, you need to buy them their own iPad.

You're right. But I still think I would buy my kid their own iPad even if my iPhone/iPad had a kid mode. My kid has their own iPad and I still find times when it would be ideal to give them access to the basic features on my phone/ipad. Frankly, if iOS just added the ability to password protect any app then that would be good enough, and it would be useful for more than kids... hand you phone to a coworker or relative to look at photos they can't accidentally/intentionally hop over to your email.

Your last use-case is sort of covered by Android's screen pinning feature[0]. You have to enable it in settings, but it's useful, and seems to work well.

[0] https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/6118421?hl=en This link is for Nexus, but I think it's included in all version of Android since 5.0 Lollipop.

iOS has this too, it's called Guided Access.

iOS lets you block access to a single app, so that even if they click the home button they can't go anywhere else.

I hadn't heard of that. How do you use this feature?

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202612

Awesome. Thank you!

Buying kids their own phone is what this leads to. The kid only knows the kid-mode PIN for their own phone.

This would be a phone for the kid that was locked into basic mode during school hours and then maybe unlocked on weekends or for a game session.

Once upon a time, kids went to school without phones, so it is possible...

There's some of that in iOS: "Settings -> Restrictions", which will be locked by a passcode.

It has a lot of options, but probably not enough (like restricting specific apps.) You can however set to allow only apps rated "4+ years, 6+, etc.

Time limitation is possible too, via "Settings -> Accessibility -> Guided Access".

> I‘m pretty sure Apple won‘t do that, because they want you to buy your kids their own iPhone.

The funny thing is, Apple didn't want to call their computer a "PC", but their smartphone is more a personal computer than any other brand.

Android has had multi-user accounts for months or years now (I can't remember exactly when it was introduced).

It's a standard feature on Xiaomi phones. You can set up two user profiles, each with a different lock screen password. Each profile is effectively a different phone - different apps, different settings, even a different SIM card if you like.

http://xiaomitips.com/guide/how-to-use-miui-8-second-space-f...

It's a standard feature in Android phones in general.

Really? Guest mode is a standard feature since Lollipop, but that just logs you into a completely blank account without any installed apps or user data. You can switch Google accounts, but that's a multi-tap process that can't be activated directly from the lock screen.

Second Space isn't unique in functionality, but it's exceptionally slick in execution.

Android supports multiple profiles, not just Guest Mode.

> Hey smartphone makers, if you're listening: Let me set an alternate PIN that unlocks the phone in a limited access mode, or "kid mode." Only pre-approved apps are available. Only pre-approved contacts can be called/texted. In-game purchases require the more secure PIN. Maybe when the phone is in this mode I can track its location easily, and make it emit a noise. The maximum volume is much lower than normal. A lockout timer auto-locks the phone after X minutes. If the battery dips below 20%, only the voice calling, texting, and tracking will work. Bandwidth caps. Et cetera.

I don’t understand how this is different from parental controls (speaking from iOS experience; perhaps this is lacking on Android?)

Is there a way to enable parental controls with an alternate phone unlock PIN? If so, then my comment is silly and I am silly. If not, then it stands. That's where the control belongs, so one can freely share a working PIN with one's kids, with no need to turn on a setting buried in menus (not to mention always remembering to do so).

Why would you _share_ a phone with your kids? Isn't the whole point of giving your kids a phone being able to call them or have them call you when an emergency arises?

Not that I particularly agree with this, but I've seen it enough to recognize it as a use case.

You're at a restaurant with your kid, and they're bored because you're having adult conversations with your friends. You give them your phone and they play whatever game for a while, while you have no need for your phone because you're in a conversation.

Or, alternatively, you're sitting around the house and they want to play a game on it.

K prisms You're at a restaurant with your kid, and they're bored because you're having adult conversations with your friends.

Call me old fashioned, but my parents just used to make us sit there and be quiet. Bored? That's life, learn to deal with it.

Both the parent and the child in your example are lacking discipline. The parent unable to tolerate a bored child and the child unable to tolerate boredom. This is a pattern I have personally noticed as early as babies being pushed around in prams with a smartphone or tablet in hand. A two year old definitely doesn't need a phone to relieve boredom but it's easy.

I think people have a tendency to find meaning in things they've done after the fact. In this way, waiting on a boring conversation becomes a lesson in the difficulties of life. This is the root of "character building" activities as well. Is it really better to be bored than not bored? Will my children and I both be better off if they are bored, and my conversation is constrained by increasingly agitated children?

I'd prefer my children have something to do. A book, a phone, an iPad or Switch. Why shouldn't they be entertained while I am? Actually, forcing them to sit quietly while I have fun seems like a weird message to me.

Granted, being bored is a part of life. Undoubtedly then, they'll encounter many boring experiences without the need for me to artificially create them. And, if I know I'll have to wait for someone or something, I bring a book or phone. Why would I deny them the same pleasure?

Smartphones are making us interpret every gap in life as boredom, when it could actually be a break. I know, we're talking about kids. But I seriously think that if they seldom exercise stillness they will never be able to enjoy it. And THAT is a loss.

I don't disagree, and I think I made that clear at the start. Looking around though, it happens quite a bit, and since the discussion was about "what's the use case for this?" I think it stands ok.

I think it has to do with how easy it is to enable. Having a second PIN that automatically goes into kid/guest mode would be fantastic. They could even have a little more freedom then too -- they could create their own wallpapers, customize the location of apps, and change other innocuous system settings which only benefits Apple by helping kids learn more than the parental controls currently gives them access to.

Our teenage son carries a flip phone. Always has, always will, until he can pay for something else.

I tried to buy my son the most basic phone available. $5-$10, no camera. I wanted it to do phone calls, texts, and that's it.

Turns out it still had a rudimentary browser. And because the phone was only capable of 3G, his basic line had unlimited data. He spent a ridiculous number of hours watching YouTube on that tiny 1.5" screen.

Maybe Motorola needs to bring back their old Razor phones?

Nokia is already at the retro game: https://www.nokia.com/en_int/phones/nokia-3310

Same for mine. I figure if he displays the maturity and initiative to get a job, then he's qualified.

For us, that's part of it.

The main reason is how worried we are about the impact unfettered, always on, modern Internet/technology will have on the developing brains of teenagers, and beyond.

I don't think the impact was great for me, honestly. And that was 15 years ago. The internet is a different place now - maybe not for the better.

If I didn't work for a telco, I would still carry a basic phone.

The thing I really, really love about having a Google Pixel phone is the camera, and its with me all the time. I was riding my bicycle to work on Friday and saw the sunrise...it was quite beautiful: https://www.realms.org/pics/IMG_20180105_072614_1.jpg

Besides that, I have very few apps installed on my phone. I basically use it as a mobile web browser from time to time.

I switched back to a "good old plain, non distracting phone" 2013 (http://www.atterobay.com/public/upload_images/model_images/o...) and have been pretty happy.

That said, I have to admin that the "features" I'm missing are a camera and a map.

URL seems truncated?

I'm with you! I'd love a smartphone that has a great camera, access to map & weather info and nothing more!

I used to have a Nokia 6700 Slide that was pretty much that, but sadly it died. No GPS though, just maps.

That's a pretty picture. I wonder though, the beautiful Voronoi-like patterns between the leaves are an intentional effect, or camera quality issues rendering as something nice by accident?

Phones jam a lot of pixels into tiny sensors so need to apply agressive noise reduction. I think that’s what you are seeing.

There's very little deeply 'intentional' about any picture I take. I tend to take virtually no time for composition, and shoot some large number of pics when something catches my eye.

I'm told by people who do have some actual talent that a small fraction of the pics I take are good.

For this picture, I was actually riding my bicycle, and snapped two dozen shots over 30 seconds.

Hah. I carried a point and shoot in my pocket from 2004-2010, until I got an iPhone.

I used it for telling time, taking photos of maps and other useful notes, etc. Super useful.

> In-game purchases require the more secure PIN

Wait, what? I'd rather say: No in-game purchases for minors at all.

I think that's what was meant; a limited access PIN for the kid, and a "more secure" full access PIN for the parent. That way the parent can approve in-game purchases and that sort of thing if they wish.

Multiuser support is built into Android in recent versions.

> Let me set an alternate PIN that unlocks the phone in a limited access mode, or "kid mode." Only pre-approved apps are available.

Come to think of it, there should also be a border mode when one is traveling.

I've advocated for that, as well as an ATM PIN to use if one is being forced to withdraw funds. It could alert police, mark the security camera footage to be saved, and show a very low account balance.

Try as one might, the world doesn't seem to want to be better.

OK I'll bite. I think your solution only solves one edge case. And there are too many other edge cases to warrant spending the infrastructure to fix one edge case.

Examples, your solution doesn't solve:

- Mugger waits for you to withdraw the money from ATM.

- Mugger forces you to withdraw everything AFTER you entered your PIN.

- Muggers holding someone ransom until you get them their money.

- You are traveling outside of your home country/unreliable law enforcement.

Good idea. Though the phone will have to look like it's not hiding/restricting the officer in any way for this to work.

Wow... I would love have this mode on all the time.

(of course, it will never happen because such a mode "reduces engagement")

They have programs that do this now. I dont know them off the top of my head by I know parents that have full control over their kids smart phone from their phone. They allow apps to be run in certain time windows, or lets the parent lock and unlock them at will, etc...

There are a number of apps which provide a mode with features like that, including some first-party ones from handset manufacturers like Samsung's Kids Mode.

I'm pretty sure my current phone (Samsung Galaxy S5) literally has a Kid Mode that does a lot of this stuff. And that came out, like, 4 or 5 years ago?

iOS has a Guided Access mode that does some/alternatives of what you said like lockout timer: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202612. I always use it when I let my kid use my iPhone/iPad.

Android has multiple users mode with a separate pin etc. Not sure about parental controls though

What age group are you talking about? Under 10 or under 13? There are things like kid tablets.

Pretty sure GP was talking about giving their children their own smartphones.

I do think the Fire Tablets have this feature.

Yes, Amazon FreeTime lets you set limits on the amount of time kids play games or watch videos. You can also require that they spend a minimum amount of time reading or using educational apps before they can get their games/videos.

I'm fairly sure that feature already exists. On Amazon tablets (and phone) it's called Free Time or child profiles. I'm confident there's an Android equivalent. If not, on a rooted Android phone you could just run your own shell script which could periodically check running or installed apps, and close or uninstall undesirables.

Android has limited access accounts, which would do many of those things.

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