Hacker News Reader

Hacker News

Comment by cwkoss | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

cwkoss

1. Assemble a botnet

2. Automatically download and reupload popular videos, with extremely subtle modifications.

3. File automated takedown notices against each copied (popular) video

4. Destroy youtube's ad ecosystem for cheap

View on HN

Or, use an adversarial DNN to transform videos into ones that will get copyright claims. Extra points if you figure out to how to have it using reinforcement learning to improve itself.

Demonstrating that the system is broken is not an effective strategy. It is impossible to get someone to understand a fact when their salary depends on not understanding it.

That's like saying that grocery stores are broken because you can just print out bar codes and use them at the self-checkout. Stores have enough security for their needs and balance it with customer convenience. I don't think even Google would claim that their system is perfect, only that it's currently good enough to stave off ravenous lawyers and keep them from losing safe harbor.

The point isn't demonstrating anything; the point is making continuing to run the system as-is untenable. If every large corporate publisher on YouTube is suddenly having takedown claims filed against them, the system isn't going to stay the same for long.

I suppose not, but what do you expect will happen instead?

There's a good chance the answer will be "YouTube shuts down", and while that could be a good thing, you'd better have a replacement ready for deployment. Preferably something open source and distributed.

> If every large corporate publisher on YouTube is suddenly having takedown claims filed against them, the system isn't going to stay the same for long.

That's wishful thinking, they'll just be whitelisted.

Wouldn't that just result in the videos being taken down/demonetized?

Not sure how this would harm youtube, wouldn't you just end up silencing yourself?

Baiting fraudulent DMCA claims and then countersuing for lost revenue COULD work, but would likely require more legal fees than would be 'profitable'.

Making one copyright claims on youtube will basically just move the revenue of the ads to the copyright holder.

If you are able to trigger this to three separate claim holders you can actually jam the system into not paying out or any monetization.

I might be explaining this badly so if I am mixexplaining this but Jim Sterling does this.

Umm I wasn’t really being serious about this at first but due to overwhelming response I might try this.

5. Find out it doesn't work.

YouTube's enforcement system is not set up to treat every actor in it equally. It's set up to favor big rightsholders like record labels at the expense of everyone else. So your attempt to get all those videos demonetized, or get copyright "strikes" on the big labels' accounts, isn't going to succeed. Notices filed against those accounts probably go into a black hole (and you have no DMCA remedy, because YouTube doesn't use the DMCA system, requires you to use that system as part of its terms of service, and so isn't obligated to act DMCA-style on complaints filed through its separate non-DMCA system).

> YouTube doesn't use the DMCA system

Are you sure? Wouldn't they then lose the "safe habour" protection from the DMCA, and then be more liable?

I know they can, and do, go beyond the DMCA, and take down things more often. But I thought they would still want to keep the benefits (for them) of the DMCA

YouTube will react appropriately to a DMCA notice if you send them one. That's all they have to do to keep their safe harbor. Anyone can go look up their registered agent and do it.

But YouTube's own easy-to-use automated enforcement system is very different from the DMCA, and almost certainly will ignore or at least massively de-prioritize notices-within-that-system-which-are-not-DMCA-notices against a major company. So if you felt you had a real case you'd probably have to actually send a DMCA notice, which would just result in automatic counter-notice and YouTube saying "well, we followed the rules, if you want more to happen you have to go sue that gigantic company all by yourself".

OK, that's what I thought. I thought the DMCA required something to be down for a certain amount of days (1? 3?), like you cannot just auto put it back up, right?

2.1 embed Rick Astley "never gonna give you up" within the video.

That’s already been done. See here: https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ

Uh uh. Nope. Not gonna fool me this time!

IIRC I have only been Rick Rolled 2 or 3 times. You had to have Navy SEAL level of discipline during that year or two.

...or be trained in gorilla warfare, so that it's just another (non-click) target to you.

Great, now I'm imagining some sort of Planet of the Apes crossover..

For the people who hadn't had their coffee yet:

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/navy-seal-copypasta?full=1

> dQw4

Nope, not falling for that one.

Funny, same reaction, but I memorized XcQ :).

Haven't heard that song (on youtube) in years. Blocked in my country.

I would hope the older and more popular original video would ‘win’ in that scenario

True story: on soundcloud, I had a private track that I later (months) released on a label. Shortly after that label published the track, soundcloud reached out to me to say that I had illegally-uploaded content. I told them I owned the rights to the song and they confirmed this with the label, but it was still a weird experience.

> soundcloud reached out to me to say that I had illegally-uploaded content. I told them I owned the rights to the song and they confirmed this with the label

That sounds exactly like how the system should work.

Except, perhaps, it'd be nice if they asked politely if he had permission rather than claim he didn't.

5. Create an atmosphere of fog in the DMCA dispute system, slowing down operations and reducing the effectiveness of automation efforts

6. Package this in such a way that anyone can deploy it, making it eternal and diffuse. Otherwise it’s just going to be one or two people with the feds eating them alive to “make a point” about law and order.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com