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Comment by bambax | Hacker News Reader

> May I ask if you have kids?

Yes you may. I have 3 (8-9-12). I don't "trust" them to not eat candy that I said they shouldn't eat, but I do trust them not to kill me in my sleep -- which is what trust is about (IMHO).

In fact I think I trust them more than I love them, and I love them a lot. But sometimes I'm upset with them. Being upset or angry doesn't affect trust.

Trust is a kind of binary quality that is either on or off; it may be too strong to say that love == trust, but I really can't imagine how I could love someone without trusting them.

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Sometimes those we love do things that hurt us. While we may still love them, our trust can be broken (to varying degrees).

So I guess you don't believe in "unconditional love"?

I just can't imagine not loving my kids even if I knew I could not trust them. Another example would be family with mental illness to such a degree you may actually fear they will kill you in your sleep, but hopefully they would be placed in a safer environment and still have their families love and support.

Drug and alcohol.dependency are the things you need to worry about, not mental illness.

http://research.bmh.manchester.ac.uk/cmhs/research/centrefor...

Page 5:

> xx. In all four UK countries, most patients convicted of homicide also have a history of alcohol or drug misuse, between 88% in England and 100% in N Ireland. In other words it is unusual for mental health patients to commit homicide unless there is a coexisting problem of substance misuse.

There is a strong correlation between mental illness and substance abuse.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/como...

But it's the drug and alcohol misuse which predicts violence, not the mental illness.

I don't think it is so clear cut, there are certainly violent mentally ill people who don't use substances. Alternatively there are addicts who are very kind.

I do believe in unconditional love -- in fact it's my whole point. How can you not trust your kids?

The case of mental imparemeent is interesting and I had not considered it. It would be possible to argue that the person isn't there anymore if they're crazy, and there needs to be someone to exercise love against. I'm not sure.

Also, maybe persons with mental illnesses could be trusted more in our society.

> I do believe in unconditional love -- in fact it's my whole point.

OK, so if love is unconditional, then what about situations where you love them but they hate you? If it's unconditional love, then you love them regardless of their feelings towards you.

What do you do if your kid is an actual psychopath and doesn't love you. Do you still love them unconditionally? Would you trust them with the keys to the gun safe?

What do you do if you have an adult child that has made some really bad life choices and is spiraling out of control addicted to hard drugs? Do you still love them (unconditional, right)? Do you trust them with the keys to your alcohol cabinet? The details to your bank account?

Love != trust.

There are some situations where if you truly love someone you do not extend them trust (because they will abuse it regardless of your love for them).

Look up the marshmallow experiment.

I'm wondering how this is relevant, when I looked at the wiki article[1] it seems to be about delayed gratification.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experimen...

Yes, the marshmallow experiment is avout self control and not trust or love.

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