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Comment by pwaai | Hacker News Reader

> I live in Israel and not once I've been shown some horrible video of Palestinians attacking locals.

Well, if you bury your head in the sand on a hot summer afternoon and proceed to claim its night, it's hard to take further claims seriously.

I will agree that there is extremists on both ends that just furthers their own political/economic interests and muddies the water.

...but my analysis of the conflict over there is that it is much deeper than politics or economics, spanning millenias of beef.

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I encourage you to come over and see how things actually go by. People are getting killed by terrorists who happen to be 16 years old kid brain-washed by the same news you and I are having an argument over. My point was that we've never demonstrated the same approach to the so-called beef. We do not go out to the streets, gun blazing, and start killing. I'm sure some of you will hop and go say "Right, you prefer to do it in the fields, with soldiers bullying and taking lands they don't own." For fuck sake, give me a break. For all I care, my neighbor could be Arab and we can be BFFs as long as the killing-spree stops. I'm not against Palesintians, nor any Arabs. I care for my family and friends being slaughtered in our fucking streets and we have nothing to do about it.

> We do not go out to the streets, gun blazing, and start killing.

I suspect if Palestinians had F-16s and Apache gunships available they, too, would avoid street battles.

If the military situation were reversed, there would be no jews on this land. That tells you a bit who really wants to exterminate the other in that conflict.

Then stop your government from taunting, harassing and humiliating Palestinians. I understand being prey of FUD so I can imagine how difficult it is -- what if we let them, they'll take over, they'll out-number us, push us back to the sea! -- but you should collectively stop voting cynical sociopaths that lead your country just to prepare for the next round of war and further cement their grip on their constituency.

> I'm sure some of you will hop and go say "Right, you prefer to do it in the fields, with soldiers bullying and taking lands they don't own." For fuck sake, give me a break.

"Give me a break"? Isn't what you described exactly what happens?

I'm neutral to the Israeli-Palestine conflict. Each side is doing what they believe is just. The palestine side does not have the resources or military hardware so they turn to asymmetric warfare. On the other hand israel faces a huge security issue as a result and will deploy their resources accordingly.

I do have a lingering hope, given the number of organizations fighting asymmetric warfare like the IRA, FARC have now turned to non violent political representation, that we might see some change.

I condemn acts of terrorism there is simply nothing that justifies the murder of innocent lives, period.

> I'm neutral to the Israeli-Palestine conflict. Each side is doing what they believe is just.

Doesn't seem to me a very sound stance, as you can do very evil or wrong things while doing what you believe is just.

I agree with the "asymmetric warfare" definition (which by the way implies conventional warfare from one of the two sides); however you should not forget that is one of the two parties that is illegally occupying, controlling and expropriating a good portion of the other's territory.

If you see two people fighting in the street,the fact that one has illegally appropriated (i.e. stolen) something from the other might give you a better idea of what's going on.

All I'm saying is there's no absolutes in life. Everything is relative.

I'm not denying Palestines their right to freedom. I'm not denying Israelis their right to exist.

All I've done is just depict the situation as it is. No judgement, no side taking.

North Korea does what it does to survive. South Korea does what it needs to do to the same.

Palestinians fight for their freedom and very right to exist. Israel fights to keep control over territories that have been stolen to somebody else. Nobody would object if they were fighting in self-defense, but they're not (though of course that is what they want you to believe, otherwise how could you support them or even declare yourself neutral?).

> All I've done is just depict the situation as it is.

No, you didn't. You described the Israeli position as they made you believe it is, not as it really is.

You have nothing to do about it? How about stop building government sponsored settlements inside of Palestinian territory, Stop blocking the free movement of Palestinians by putting checkpoints outside of every village. Stop treating these human beings as animals where they are not allowed to walk on "Jewish only" paths. Stop demolishing Palestinian homes in what the IDF calls "Collective Punishment".

Those are just some suggestions if you are looking for peace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF30AjvvusI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19jRZ2BIFqc

And I'm curious, I don't want to compare the palestinians situation to that of the jews during WWII even though there are many parallels especially those living in Gaza, but would you call the Black civil rights activists in the 50's and 60's or the Anti-Apartheid movement "terrorists" or "inciters"? I mean Nelson Mandela himself said “We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians.” Brother, if there is no JUSTICE, there will be no PEACE.

> I'm sure some of you will hop and go say "Right, you prefer to do it in the fields, with soldiers bullying and taking lands they don't own." For fuck sake, give me a break. For all I care, my neighbor could be Arab and we can be BFFs as long as the killing-spree stops.

I think there must be a premise hidden somewhere behind that expletive.

What is the nature of the sentence between the quotation marks? Is that a hypothetical counterargument of someone who is misrepresenting (or misunderstanding) what Israeli soldiers are doing? Or is it supposed to be an accurate account of what Israeli soldiers are doing, and you mean to say that people wrongly think you agree with what the soldiers are doing?

Israel kills far more Palestinians than Palestinians kill Israelis.

And this is a sporting event where we should equalize the sides? The idea that the death toll proves anything is lunacy.

Are you arguing that the death toll proves nothing?

A race to zero is what I’m after. It’s been/being done in other places, it can happen there.

The death toll was presented as evidence that Israel is in the wrong. I'm saying it proves nothing about which side is in the wrong.

He didn't say that no such thing happens. He said he doesn't see it on Facebook because it's against their terms of service.

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