Part of it is also due to traditional physicians being so dismissive of the role nutrition plays in a person's well being.
Part of it is also due to traditional physicians being so dismissive of the role nutrition plays in a person's well being.
All of this is really bad. Please don't abuse the site like this again.
Edit: Also reversed is a pretty strong word. I haven't seen any compelling evidence that Crohn's can be cured with lifestyle change.
There is an incredible amount of confusion with regard to appropriate lifestyle interventions. Part of the problem is that your predecessors' predecessors (doctors in the 1950's and 1960's) came up with some simplistic and wrong advice that never got properly withdrawn: the hazard of butter and the superiority of refined vegetable oil, the hazard of salt (farmers and veterinarians give animals salt licks), estrogen as "the female hormone" -> DES babies && prescription horse urine (PREMARIN is PREgnant MARes' urIN), etc.
The American Heart Association still warns about saturated fat [0]. If science advances one funeral at a time, what can be done about organizations that insist on being wrong?
[0] https://recipes.heart.org/Articles/1013/Healthy-Cooking-Oils
Modern medicine does have some good advice, but it's very tough to separate the wheat from the chaff. I think medical professionals are just as confused as everyone else. On Christmas I heard someone (a physician's assistant) recommend an erection-killing intervention to help stop her sister's boyfriend's hair loss [1].
[1] https://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/news/20120413/propec... - this side effect might not be not universal, but is devastating to the men who suffer it.
"Palliative" drugs are commonly used. This is essentially Elisabeth Rosenthal M.D.'s rule #2 for American medicine: "A lifetime of treatment is preferable to a cure." [2]
[2] How Economic Incentives have Created our Dysfunctional US Medical Market - https://medium.com/@RosenthalHealth/how-economic-incentives-...
Dr. Brewer's pregnancy diet is supposedly quite helpful for dealing with common pregnancy problems. Iirc, the core pillars of this diet are adequate protein and "salt to taste". But conventional medicine never figured this out for itself - I've met lots of women who suffered from dangerously-high blood pressure during their pregnancies. One's diet consisted of saltine crackers - she was nauseous, and had to have labor induced before the baby killed her.
Appropriate lifestyle interventions start to benefit people right away. Coconut oil rapidly helps with alcohol cravings, for example. People can lose most of their excess weight over a period of 2-4 years. Pregnant women immediately benefit from adequate salt intake. Etc.
Doctors are doing much better today than 50 or 100 years ago. I think the industry would greatly benefit from a critical examination of common practices.
I have. About a dozen of them. In fact, each Crohn's patient that I've seen undergo a fast 2 weeks or longer has not had any flare ups since. And completely stopped taking all medications and undergoing their usual treatments.
(they do watch their diet after, mostly fruits and veggies).
Lifestyle change alone will not cure it. It must be preceded by a proper water fast.
Reversed IS a strong word, and very appropriate here.
I don't think you can blame traditional physicians. Most of them really didn't go to school for a decade to tell fat people to eat less. They want to solve medical problems, not play life coach.
Maybe there is a role for technology here. People accept statements from a machine that they'd take great offense to in person. Maybe Siri would be a better entity to tell you you're fat and need to lose weight.
Well, for them it's no one got fired for selling Lipitor.
Who do you expect to do the "cutting edge" research to confirm fasting can cure Crohn's? Do you honestly not realize this is career suicide? There is zero benefit to researchers funded by the government or pharma to find out not eating for 10-30 days is the cure to something they are selling $200K/year treatment for. This is not a conspiracy theory - this is modern life facts 101.
http://www.crohnscolitisfoundation.org/about/sponsors/
Yeah - sure, every corporate sponsor on this list just wishes for the day that it is finally known that Crohn's is not actually a lifelong incurable disease - and not only there is a cure - it literally costs nothing. In fact, you SAVE money by not eating too! LOL. It's astonishing how otherwise very smart people (especially on HN) cannot see beyond what's in front of them. I actually think the more conventionally-educated someone is, the harder it is for them to admit solutions are far simpler than they "should" be.
Being told you are fat is not a good reason to loose wight. People probably already know they are fat. Maybe there are other reasons that could be communicated...
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/19/fashion/how-apples-sir...
Do you have an alternative to prescribing medication for type 2 diabetes and Crohn's? Do you think doctors should simply withhold care since it's their patients' faults that they have those conditions?
Of course, this is not actually a cure for Crohn's, just a treatment.
Who do you expect to show you the evidence that a 2-week water fast will cure your Crohn's? The company that makes Remicade which brings them up to $200K a year per patient? A university that gets funded by the government that is lobbied heavily by the pharma companies?
Come on. Think about it.
I already shared it - now it's up to you to pick it up from here and do your own research if you are interested. I've seen many who have stopped and reversed diseases including Crohn's using water fasting followed by a diet of mostly fruits and veggies.
2 weeks is the minimum I've seen. Some need up to 30 and in rare, advanced cases even 40 days of fasting.
A few thoughts:
1) Try to not overgeneralise. Even if you really know of people who were cured, that doesn't mean it is guaranteed to work every time for every case.
2) Try to develop a hypothesis as to why and how it works rather than merely asserting that it does.
3) Drop the conspiracy theory language and stance. It only hurts your case here.
I hope you really do know something useful. It might even benefit me if you do. But your presentation really needs work if you are going to get anywhere.
Best.
I don't know if it makes sense to change it. It may seem counter intuitive, however it's been my experience that the harsh tone and somewhat trolling-like language IS what sparks some people to PM me and make initial contact, or at least open a new tab and start googling.
I used to not be like this online, and I definitely see better response from my current style. (better in the sense that I think it results in more people taking it upon themselves to research this further). Yes, it has its drawbacks and my responses are usually at the bottom of any health-related thread on HN, but even this thread already got a few people to find my email (it's not hard) and send a quick note.
The downvotes here and general negativity towards fasting does not paint the real picture. There are many silent voices out there who will not engage here fearing backlash from other users or even employers or potential customers.
I'm always happy to and offer to jump on the phone with anyone who wants to talk and hear from a live anecdote or just be pointed in the right direction research-wise.
And one would do well to set their ego aside and try to first do no harm. Getting converts to your fasting religion may feel like a rush, but you may wind up harming someone. It does not sound to me like you really want to look at the possibility that your cure may not be all that and a bag of chips, which just sets off alarm bells for me.
I am a potential ally. I have done similar things. You choose to not engage those facts while justifying your admittedly trollish behavior. I don't think this speaks well of your motives.
If you want to make the world a better place, the best place to start is with the man in the mirror.
I made my own world a better place. Friends and loved ones who listened to my real-life non-troll opinion are better off today. Every single one. A coworker who dismissed it 2 years ago came around a few months ago and said he's no longer diabetic. Nope - the doctors did not find a special pill just for him. No new injection discovered. He checked himself in to a fasting clinic and walked out a new man.
I'll consider toning it down in the future. It will still be downvoted and the only difference will be less discussion, which will result in less attention from those who need it most. Me? I don't actually enjoy this. I spent a couple hours refreshing HN today just for this when I could have been doing something else. I choose what threads to comment on very carefully because I know HN is very science-oriented, but people will die waiting for the pharma companies to admit this.
Then you are free to stop, no?
I have one and only one person listening to what I have to say about my condition and getting better.
I was you a few years ago. I have been doing this 17 years, not 6.
Anyway. Probably just wasting your time and mine both.
Ciao.
Think on this: I am a potential ally, doing similar things. You are actively picking a fight with me and driving me away.
Ask yourself: Why is that?
Your behavior is egomaniacal and casually callous.
I have cystic fibrosis. I am getting well when doctors claim it cannot be done. I have been in your shoes in arguments. I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and be constructive.
But, sorry I engaged. Carry on with your knowingly and intentionally trollish goal of getting converts to your totally not a cult.
Yet you have no issue with people who have never even heard of this concept coming here and making definitive statements that this is all non-sense?
It is well known that fasts need to be from a few days to 40 days. I'm sure you've come across that 40-day number before if you're not entirely new to fasting.
So maybe take some time to digest it and if you ever want to really talk, my contact info is easy to find.
It's not about who funds the research - there is literally no benefit to confirming that water fasting cures diseases. Nobody in the medical industrial complex would benefit from this. Not even food companies! (because you won't be eating for up to 30 days and then change your consumption habits drastically against mass produced factory food).
Shelton, Herbert M. Fasting Can Save Your Life: How Christians Can Change World Events Through the Simple, Yet Powerful Tools of Prayer and Fasting. Natural Hygiene Press, 1964.
Please.
Think about it for one minute - patients go through extreme treatments like chemo, radiation, Remicade, whatever - anything to get better, right? Why is exposing your body to crazy treatments so accepted, but this isn't? Nobody is telling you to expose yourself to chemicals, eat crazy things, drink concoctions.. really. What's your issue with water fasting? Such a pure process.
So why not give this a shot? Type 2 diabetes people in fact see results in a matter of few days. What do they have to lose? I'm sure you're intelligent enough to realize water fasting for extended but still short enough of timeframe is not starvation, right?
If you could make an effort for 5 days for the chance of never having to suffer from Type 2 diabetes - why the heck not give the patient the information? This is sick, truly sick, and people like you are keeping it so.
Posted some more links for you in another comment.
Do you have proof that you know of someone who water fasted for extended period of time and was not cured or was harmed?
Because I DO have the opposite proof.
So your empty statements and insinuations is just trolling.
Yes, the alternative is a 10 to 30 day water fast for both of those. I know several people that successfully cured both. Especially Crohn's, the amount of misinformation given by physicians is stunning and borderline criminal. $200K a year Remicade treatments GONE after 2 weeks of water fasting. Why would Big Pharma have any incentive to get this message out there?
High blood pressure for example can be reversed entirely after 5 days of water fasting. Completely gone. I don't know how else to say it. I have first hand knowledge of many successful water fasts, but the medical world has brainwashed everyone to the point that I get shut down immediately in any social setting by even mentioning this. But that's okay. Not forcing anyone to do anything they don't believe in. All I can do is share my knowledge and point people in the right direction when they're ready.
There are plenty of quality and health savings organizations that would fund such a trial if there were any hint of benefit. But there isn't.
I'm glad to hear that pseudo-science still gets shut down in social circumstances.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/03/12/fasting-for-th...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684131/
I personally know multiple people that did listen to me and others who told them about the healing powers of a water fast, and cured their illnesses by doing it. There's really no downside. You are not "starving" yourself. That is such an insane myth.
I myself did too - got rid of a bad arthritis in the knee that I've suffered from for years - just 20 days into a fast (this was 6 years ago, no inflammation of any kind since).
Several reasons:
1. They conducted one, but didn't like the results.
2. "Don't ask what you don't want to know the answer to" applies here - there is ZERO benefit in discovering that water fasting indeed reverses diseases to which these entities have vested interest in keeping their symptoms a lifelong struggle to patients. Nothing good would come out of it for them. The entire modern medical business model would collapse.
Tin foil hat? Sure, label me that. All I can do is drop tidbits that may be helpful to someone now or in the future. I already know that I've helped a couple dozen people personally in the last few years, myself included.
Those people would still be in a very bad shape if they waited for government or pharma company to endorse what has already been proven to be used successfully for hundreds of years as a primary healing treatment.
For sure, there are seemingly endless possibilities that are not being thoroughly explored by the many scientific bodies, but I can understand why that is.
Thanks for taking the time to reply with more information/research.
I can easily imagine anecdotal evidence like that you mention while dismissing the rest of the medical establishment (with loaded phrases like Big Pharma) is likely to get you dismissed as well. Perhaps that's not how you intend to come across, so perhaps you might look at tempering your arguments to make them more palatable to those you believe are brainwashed.
So anyway, I hear your feedback and agree with it. Offline I'm much more patient and I do make it a point to take my time and only slowly break the news to them that traditional medicine has been lying to them for so many years, coupled with real evidence and pointers as to the direction they should be looking at in evaluating what I just shared with them.
> "Offline I'm much more patient"
I encourage you to behave more like you do in real life here on HN. Much of what has unfortunately become accepted as discourse on many forums does serious damage to actual meaningful discussion. If that's not what you're interested in, please just refrain from commenting. Many on HN, for all it's faults, are trying for something better than average, even if we don't always succeed. People are still people, regardless of where you're encountering them.
And I have, so far I answered every comment, including the physician who wanted links to "proof", whatever that may be. After all, who really benefits from finding proof that water fast cures illnesses that otherwise require a lifelong regimen of medication and doctor visits?
If you have a message you want to convey, it's in your best interested to also convey it in a manner that has the best possible chance of being accepted. If you've already decided that's not worth the effort, it's probably not worth the effort to comment at all.
I will make it a point to phrase my comments differently in the next health-related thread.
Why wait? Why not start now?
So you are left with real life people who have seen success. And there are plenty once you open your eyes.