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Comment by valuearb | Hacker News Reader

This is a lie. Bombardiers planes don’t compete with any Boeing planes.

Yet still Boeing flexed their lobbyists.

Delta chose to go with Bombardier planes in this case[1] which directly affected Boeing's ability to sell them their equivalents. That sounds like competition.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSeries_dumping_petition_by_Bo...

> which directly affected Boeing's ability to sell them their equivalents.

Boeing's bid to Delta was some Embraer E series they had from an Air Canada trade-in. [1]

No model of 737MAX competes with the C Series for Delta's RFP. Both Boeing and Delta have readily admitted this when asked (see [1]).

Boeing has nothing in the market to compete with regional jets like the C Series. This is exactly why they are now looking into buying Embraer to counter Airbus acquiring a majority stake in the C Series. [2]

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/scotthamilton5/2016/05/17/embra...

[2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-21/boeing-is...

That sounds like there is competition for this market between Bombardier and Boeing.

> That sounds like there is competition for this market between Bombardier and Boeing.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion. Let me try again:

It's like going to a Ford dealership and asking them for a scooter. Because Ford doesn't manufacture scooters, they offer to sell you a Vespa instead because the last customer traded one in.

Sure, they'll make a sale, but it's not like Ford makes the Vespa or the replacement parts for a Vespa (maintenance contracts are a BFD in aerospace, often worth more than the initial plane order).

So now you (Delta) come and want to buy 100 Vespas, and Ford still doesn't make a Vespa and has no plans to. So while slagging Vespa (Bombardier) for detracting from Ford's scooter sales they start talks to buy Vespa's closest competitor (Embraer).

Yeah... Totally competing in the same segment...

Yea, it's like Chrysler suing to block Ferrari imports because they want to re-sell McLarens.

Is that example really supposed to make anything clearer?

Your own link explains how uncompetitive they are. Boeing's 737s range from 138-200+ passengers, the CS100 is in the 108-133 passenger range. More importantly the CS100 is significantly smaller and lighter, helping make it cheaper to operate on the routes Delta wanted.

So to bid against Bombardier, Boeing didn't even try to offer 737s, knowing they can't fit Delta's needs. Instead they offered 717s and Embrauers, both of which are used (Boeing canceled the 717 over a decade ago).

The risk isn't that Boeing competes with Bombardier right now. The risk is that the Bombardier will stretch the C-series and create a CS500 that will compete directly with the 737. You can't do that with the Embraer.

That’s a risk our trading rules aren’t supposed to address.

Agreed.

Lobbyism is what saved the american car industry.

The American car industry is safe in the US market as long as nobody outside the US figures out how to compete with the F150. Even if it had to eventually ditch everything but the trucks, the cash cow shows no signs of dying anytime soon. Make them aluminum, carbon fiber, electric, turbo, whatever - it's the form factor that sells.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

Foreign automakers can't sell trucks in the US.

Sure they can, they just can't import them. Japanese car makers have had manufacturing in the US for ages now.

Citation needed, cause no.

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