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Comment by fermienrico | Hacker News Reader

Google is miles ahead in terms of a conversational assistant.

There is a lot of friction in using voice activated services. If I have a choice of typing "Weather in XXXXX zip" in the address bar vs. asking an assistant, I choose the former. Therefore, every time I use anything else but Google, I am afraid it won't recognize my command and I immediately feel like throwing that thing out of the window.

I need to be 100% sure that I will get a return on my time invested when it comes to searching or asking for information. When a Google search fails in a browser, at least I have something to bite on.

For other things such as timers, calendars, game scores, home lights, music - assistants are nice.

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Having to say "OK, Google" instead of just "Google" (or "Alexa") is a deal-breaker.

Google's products don't feel like they are designed by humans.

>Having to say "OK, Google" instead of just "Google" (or "Alexa") is a deal-breaker.

LOL. That is one of the reasons I hated Alexa. She turned on when a podcast said something about her, the TV ad came on, we talked about our friend Alexa and when anything sounded kinda like Alexa. Ended up changing it to Echo, which worked a bit better. Amazon was out of the question when order to much from there and so common conversation have Amazon in them.

I enjoy Googles way more and no one I know still uses "OK, Google" its much simpler and rolls off the tongue to say "Hey, Google!". First world problems after all.

>Google's products don't feel like they are designed by humans.

And Amazons does? Over half of the stuff I said to Alexa comes back as "I don't know how to help with that" even simple facts. Alexa seems to be very limited in researching and answering. While google has there powerful search engine. Also with google I can build shortcuts for even the most advanced, long winded commands and wrap it into "Hey google, protocol seven" or whatever I want.

earlier this you I was on a skype conference from home with a colleague called Alex and a client.

At one point the conversation triggered alexa and i had to apologise and quickly pull the plug

The word Google isn't as nice to say as Alexa. I don't have the problems you seem to have with Alexa. It works perfectly.

I wonder if your feelings are related to the Bouba/Kiki effect.

Just googled what that is. It could be!

Have you ever been in a room with an Alexa unit when people are trying to talk about it? It's like a comedy routine with the device activating spuriously over and over.

I have, and it's pretty funny. We quickly adapted to just saying "A." or "her".

Probably in a few years this whole debate topic will seem quant, as devices will be much at figuring out when we're addressing them than the primitive idea of a wake-word. :-)

This is not feasible with software updates alone on the Echo Dot or Google Home Mini, as it will require better hardware unless you just want your device to constantly phone home everything.

I think they’re saying they changed to referring to Alexia in conversation to A or Her

I'm responding to "devices will be much [better] at figuring out when we're addressing them than the primitive idea of a wake-word". That kind of on-device context detection may not be feasible with the currently-shipping hardware.

The manufacturers want you to buy new hardware at least every year, so that's not a barrier to new features unless you refuse to upgrade.

I'm sure they could do that detection without local updates in the future (disable the output if it detect a wrong context).

This should actually be fairly easy even now, simple grammar analysis could discover whether the sentence is directed at Alexa or is simply about Alexa.

But of course its much easier to require "Hey"

You're assuming that these devices have anything to offer even if they worked.

Not an unreasonable assumption, considering their popularity and the fact that people DO use them.

they do! for me, anyway.

i bought an echo dot on a whim, since it's so cheap, assuming it'd be fun to play with, but not very useful.

to my surprise, it's really handy. setting timers, adding food to the shopping list, and playing music are all super-convenient with alexa. turning lights on and off with her is fun too, although i admit, it was already a fairly easy task to do using a conventional, physical switch. :-)

Considering their enduring popularity in mass-appeal science-fiction constructs (stories, movies etc), I'm pretty sure they do have "something to offer".

I want one sounding like EDI from massefect II and II or Orac from Blakes 7

Exactly the same here.

I enjoy it when mine feels like expressing an opinion in response to the commentary of any Alexa Bliss WWE match.

I keep the name “Alexa” but you can choose a few (“Computer”, “Echo”, and I think “Amazon”).

The problem happens for any name.

Amazon tried to get around it by naming the product "Echo" while making the activation phrase "Alexa" but that means people don't call it "Echo" in practice.

"Google" is an extremely common word in casual conversation. Any human who tested a device that activated every time you said "Google" would quickly recommend a change to a less likely phrase.

I think the point is that Google shouldn't be in the name at all.

You are missing the point. Even a random name wouldn't work when people talk about it. Alexa is the perfect example! Google did the right thing. Google home is what people talk about and "Ok Google" is what activities the device.

That's because Google didn't give its assistant a personality. People talk about Alexa because personifying the software is powerful, otherwise they'd be talking about the Echo.

Notice how, even in your post, you say "people talk about Google Home", but the equivalent to Google Home isn't Alexa, it's the Echo Dot.

No it works perfectly well. It worked brilliantly with Siri and had done for years before. People talking about it in the same room is an inconvenience to overcome.

It's possible that Google copied Baidu, which used "Ni hao baidu" [0] is the only thing I can think of.

[0]: https://www.coursera.org/learn/machine-learning-projects/lec... (see the video transcript)

Why, people have been asking Google a lot of questions for a long time. I can imagine the marketing department in Google not loving the idea of another name for Google.

I can see your point. They think that there is enough personality in Google as a thing. That certainly makes the most sense of what I've seen.

However I think they missed on how personal a thing it is to talk to someone. I think they should have viewed 'OK Google' as a personality that's like Google's little brother, that will ask Google for you if that's what you need or else will for example check in your diary for you.

Google doesn't need a personality. Seeing it as technology works perfectly especially when it goes wrong. It's easy to say something like, "Alexa is stupid, she can't understand a simple command", but referring to Google as tech, it is much easier to move on to reforming the command. It is also less invasive for me, personally. I'd rather refer to AI in personal terms.

"ok google" is a dealbreaker to me, but not because of google. who starts a sentence with "ok"? "hey siri" makes a bit more sense since at least you are interacting with it in a normal way. it's still weird but less robotic than 'ok google', and it's also much better than 'hey apple' for that matter

That is why I say "hey google" instead as easier to say. Our Echo gets a lot of false positives where the Google home does not. Google made the right choice in terms of usability.

What I'm responding to:

> Having to say "OK, Google" instead of just "Google" (or "Alexa") is a deal-breaker.

I don't think the argument is that it should necessarily be "Google" instead of "OK, Google." It could be anything, but whatever it is, "OK, Google" is a really clunky, robotic, and unnatural sounding phrase. Worse, it thinks it's human and conversational, but it's not, so it actually has a sort of auditory uncanny valley feeling.

It's not good.

I'm not saying they should use "Google." I don't care what they use, as long as it's better than, "OK, Google."

The Assistant now supports "Hey Google" as an option, and it's surprising how much better -feeling it is. It's less clunky, and it seems to motivate more conversational queries.

> The Assistant now supports "Hey Google" as an option

“Now” as in “since the introduction of Google Home”. (On phones prior to Google Home, it only supported “OK Google”.)

I feel the exact opposite. "Alexa" feels like a very clunky attempt to humanise something that isn't human.

And "OK, Google" is a really clunky attempt to convince me that I'm having a conversation, when I'm clearly not. It's cringe-worthy, even. It sets off all kinds of, "a programmer nerd made this and thinks this totally abnormal phrase is how real people talk" alarm bells. It's actually embarrassing to say out loud, even if you're alone.

we give names to all sorts of creatures that aren't human -- ships, pets, gods, &c. there's a large part of our brain that is basically hard-coded to interact with things assuming they are people-ish, with names and autonomous behaviors.

alexa and google home are still super-primitive, but as they get more sophisticated, thinking of them as people will seem like the most natural thing in the world.

(i do get where you're coming from, but i think it's a perspective that only makes sense for (1) the very technical and (2) is not long for this world.)

(it's sort of analogous to how originally in internet search engines, you had to put in very precise search terms, and unsophisticated people would just put in some sort of sloppy natural language query. but as the search engines got smarter, the precise stuff got ignored and sloppy was the way to go.)

My first reaction was "a Russian name?" That's curious...

“Hey Google” is the same number of syllables as Alexa.

The number of syllables isn't the problem, it's that prefixing every request with "OK," feels extremely unnatural -- almost like you're treating the Google assistant in a sardonic or sarcastic manner.

(Also, "OK" is a very unnatural prefix! Notice how you accidentally replaced it with "hey". I watched a 7 year repeatedly do this a couple of days ago with Google Home, concluding it was broken. Compare w/ Alexa, which kids pick up on instantly.)

Edit: OK, not accidental, apparently "hey" is supposed to work too. Not sure why it wasn't working at my in-laws house! I think "hey" is a better prefix word than "OK" (though still not nearly as nice as no prefix [try always addressing your friends by putting "hey" in front of their name and see how it goes]), so I reduce my criticism by half. :-)

I disagree. Ok Google comes extremely naturally to most people I know. I prefer Google’s personification of an assistant - it’s the brand itself. Not some Alexa or Siri or some gender specific role.

Google has taken an absolute brilliant approach towards voice and their popularity shows. It’s a pleasure to use compared to anything else.

It is better than the echo but it was smart of both Apple and Amazon to call their assistant by a human name. Google is punishing themselves by making their product a function of saying 'Hey [massive global corporation susceptible to PR emergencies], unlock my front door'

>>Ok Google comes extremely naturally to most people I know.

And it sounds incredibly stupid to anyone else within earshot. I can’t get over how dumb my roommate sounds whenever he uses the thing. My immediate thought when I hear him say “OK Google” is that Google must have told him something and he is responding with “OK” to acknowledge. You know, the way people actually communicate.

I get that it becomes natural after a while but so what? Why start with such an unnatural way to activate it in the first place? Why not “Hey Google”? (I know it is supported in google home)

Not sure what English speaking country, or even US region, you come from but “OK [name], [call to action, often one involving both speaker and listener]” is a thing. And it doesn’t have to be a response to something said previously.

Remember, people can do whatever they want with their language, and it becomes a thing even if you personally aren’t familiar with it.

Exactly, when used that way it involves both the speaker and the listener, as in “OK Bob, let’s go to the park”.

Or, if it is used to pretend a command, it is used as a continuation of an existing conversation, like when you are at the doctor and he or she says “Go ahead and get on the scale” and then “OK, now sit here and open your mouth.”

The way google uses it is definitely not natural.

There is also the pause, after you say “Ok google” and it activates search for you.

Anyway, fanboys will continue to downvote I know but the whole interaction is undoubtedly awkward as fuck.

native speaker of english from USA here. starting a conversation or question with 'ok' is incredibly rare and sounds painfully awkward.

AFAIK, 'Hey Google' as a hotword was supported on the Google Home from the beginning.

It's what I started with and didn't even realize okay google was also valid. I wish they'd just let us designate our own, or at least give more choices.

This is what I've wondered. Why not let us designate our own??? Or provide a number of choices. It seems only natural that one day users will be able to name their assistant.

We'll look back at fixed naming and wonder who ever thought that made sense.

If I want my assistant to be named Jarvis, it puzzles me why I can't do that. It would also simplify the case where multiple devices are in the room (e.g. not having to yell towards the specific target device and hope the others ones don't hear.)

Something so simple will deeply personalize the experience for many users.

Personalization would require training the network to recognize your hot word, which needs to work in all sound environments, and detect hot word spoken by different people. That network also needs to be optimized to be small enough to be run constantly by a low-powered CPU in standby mode.

I am not saying that it is not doable, it's just there are real engineering tradeoffs present here.

Yep, most people don't realize that:

1. Hotword detection runs on a minimal low powered local subsystem

2. The two provided hotwords run networks that have been trained on millions of samples in thousands of different environments.

That thing is very heavily optimized. Alexa and Bixbi get far more false positives and false negatives.

This. The Google home gets far less false positives and why the wake word makes far more sense. You also do not then get accidently recorded like with the Echo.

Never thought about that, but makes perfect sense. Thanks for the explanation!!

Aha. Interesting. That makes sense. Well, that's good to know. At least it means it's coming.

If it's primarily a technical challenge that raises the chances of this eventually becoming reality.

Personalisation would not give advertising of the company to any guests who witness you using the device ... that's my idea of the primary reason.

Interesting, someone else said that too. It definitely wasn't working for us though... Maybe something to do w/ whether or not it was trained to our voices?

In principle, training to your voice should only be necessary to get access to personal content and settings, but it probably also improves wakeword recognition (and the training trains with both wakewords.)

But that's still pretty terrible, they now have to support both 'OK Google' and 'Hey Google' and 'XXX Google' for all other countries.

There are quite a few people out there who don't speak English. Okay is a common word in many languages since WWII I guess. In many languages there isn't a aspirated H.

It's not accidental. That's the activation phrase.

> try always addressing your friends by putting "hey" in front of their name and see how it goes

My friends are better at contextually disregarding comments and don't send any utterance that seems to invoke them to a remote server, so don't need a form of address designed to avoid false positives.

Isn't it 'Okay Google'? Either way, I do find Alexa rolls off the tongue a little easier. That may be because I have trouble enunciating verbal transitions.

It's both. It comes down to the keyword identification algorithm of course, not the design by Google. Google's decision choice was not picking a random name that can be identified but instead working in their brand name. My bet is that give it a few years and we will have custom activation words within some constraints.

Is it both? The Google Home I was playing with at my in-laws house a couple days ago definitely only seemed to respond to "OK" (people kept forgetting and using "hey", which didn't work).

Works for me, though I've trained my voice on it, so perhaps that helps. I'm 100% it's supposed to be both.

When you're setting up the Home during the training step it makes you say "Hey Google" and "Okay Google". It's definitely a bit hard to notice considering only a single word changes.

Also the same number as "Hey, Siri". And Samsung's "Hey, Bixby". I'm assuming it's not a coincidence.

I think it's likely that three syllables just happens to be a nice cut-off point that minimizes the number of spurious activations, and that explains why everybody doing voice control uses that particular threshold to activate their digital assistant.

Heck, even Star Trek got it right way back in 1966 with its "Computer" wake word.

About the only company I can find that seems to be ignoring the three-syllable rule is Microsoft, who use "Hey, Cortana", which is four syllables. But Microsoft's always been a fan of using really long phrases to identify their products, so maybe that shouldn't be a surprise.

Just be glad that VMware don't make one.

"Hey, VMware vSphere Home Voice Assistant Essentials Plus..."

look how many times the family has to remind their grandma to say "ok" or "hey" in front of google in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2R0NSKtVA0&feature=youtu.be

not designed for humans! i rest my case.

The thought of millions of children growing up in "Google homes" being programmed to yell out a brand name constantly, is incredibly sad.

When I'm rushing out of the house and would prefer to multitask tying my shoes and checking my phone, my new Google Home makes two things incredibly easy: weather and train times. That along with a good speaker connected to Spotify has been super worth it. Bonus points for connecting to Chromecast.

I'm an iPhone / Mac person and the Chromecast / Home combo has made me consider what a life in the Google ecosystem would look like. Not yet ready to switch but it's priming me. Then I remember how terrible an Android is for my current setups. If they solve that issue for me, they have me.

If you’re in any iMessage-only group chats, you can’t really switch to Android. Apple will just silently fail to deliver any further messages to you if you try to shut down your iMessage account.

You’d have to coach each person (individually) in all of those threads to delete the thread and create a new one in order to be included again, which is a crazy barrier. Even more so if the threads are work related.

I suspect Apple is in violation of federal law in this: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2511

There are definitely certain things that are easier to do with voice, and certain things that are easier by touch. Voice will definitely never replace 100% of interaction, the trick is knowing where it's most useful.

For example, one great example is, sometimes I'm watching something on my Chromecast and I want to skip a very specific amount. I can go "OKG, skip forward 48 seconds". Try doing that with the tiny track bar on your phone precisely...

> the Chromecast / Home combo has made me consider what a life in the Google ecosystem would look like.

Like living in a fish tank being filmed from all angles.

Who cares if you're in a fish tank being filmed if the video is never viewed and the tank is in a sealed room?

Where the fish tank is placed and where that video is going is important. Details matter and trying to dismiss technology with these taglines do those details a disservice. I'm an engineer myself, I am very aware of the dangers and watch closely. Right now, for my personal calculus, the benefit outweighs the risk.

"Alexa, what's the weather?"

This isn't too difficult. I know Google is well off in this space but Alexa is pretty damn good too.

"Alexa, what's the weather?" It proceeds to tell me the weather for a state over.

"Alexa, set my location to XXXXX." It can't do that.

Actually getting correct location details requires downloading a separate smart phone application and digging through its menus to figure out how to set the location for each individual Alexa device.

I don't think it is even possible to setup an Echo without that app, so I'm not exactly sure how downloading the app is an extra step. You would have already needed to do that to get it connected to your wifi network.

Because I deleted the application from my iPhone after I finished setting up the wireless network. There was no reason to keep it around afterwards.

I own a smart phone, but it basically just is used to make phone calls. Hacker News is the closest I come to a social network.

I'm not sure why Alexa doesn't support that. Funnily I tried the same when we moved states and it didn't work. For a few weeks I appended location to my intent, "Alexa, whats the weather in X?"

One day complaining to my wife, and she asked Alexa how to change her location which Alexa provided a precise answer... goto Alexa app and update this setting. As others have pointed out the app is a requirement for Alexa anyway so I don't see why you are frustrated.

Alexa is far from perfect, but it has weather down. Things may have changed or my memory is imperfect, but one of the first things the iOS app asks you is for your home zip code. Even without that, "What's the weather in San Francisco?" works fine.

One of the biggest problems with voice assistants is that discoverability for their full feature set is awful. If you want to get the most of it, you are going to have spend some time digging through menus and learning what the device can do. I don't know why downloading an app would be a deal breaker for anyone, but all the settings and skills are also available on the web at alexa.amazon.com.

It took six months to figure out how to get Alexa to change the temperature in the built in Echo of the Ecobee4 thermostat in my house. It would always respond with, "I didn't find any smart home devices." Turns out the Ecobee skill is not enabled by default for a device it is built into. Asking how to enable it or how to make it work lead no where as well.

I was looking at an echo dot for the first time. my roommate is using it and our location is a small town 35 miles away. We tried to set the location through voice and then through the app but both didn’t work. We just gave up after wards thinking the weather should be similar.

For me, I went to the app and added my address, and it worked. I don't think it can set it through voice, though, you're right.

The locations and maps are a little peculiar with Alexa for me. Granted, Echo is new in Canada, so I guess it needs time.

Alexa gives me my specific neighborhood as my location (as opposed to my city). The thing is, I don't really live in a big city, and I would bet that most people in my city don't know the neighborhood names. For me, it's too specific.

As it relates to my city, the maps don't give common street names, but rural route numbers instead.

Same. Alexa insists to tell me the weather of the city I lived until a year ago. No idea how to inform her that I moved.

Gotta set it on your Alexa app or through alexa.amazon.co.uk / .com

Hmm, works for me in UK.

I got a google home solely because it came w/ a hue package and tried to show it to my family. The Home couldn't hear me over itself (music) across the kitchen...

My alexa can hear what I'm saying down the corridor with the shower on and much louder.

It was embarassing

The mic quality is my only complaint with the Google Home (mini). I hope they fix that next model cause it's amazing otherwise.

Interesting, I've not really had a problem with it picking up my commands from across the room when music is on, even when its playing on my nvidia shield.

I find the Alexa is less accurate at recognizing commands when music or the TV is playing.

I'm curious, why did the package size matter?

it wasn't a typo. hue is a phillips is a iot lighting system, and there are several packages that include a hue-enabled lightbulb.

A phillips hue bridge w/ 3 color ambiant lights + a google home.

I think a big reason why people chose the dot is the price. With a home mini you need to also buy a chromecast to use your speakers, while an echo dot has that aux out already.

Music is the universal killer app of these devices. My relative after talking to me basically chose the dot because of the above reason.

For myself, thats what I ended up using the dot for in my house. Music, weather, traffic & turning off some lights.

"I think a big reason why people chose the dot is the price."

First off, while this may be true, we don't know yet. What this article says is that "Dot was the best selling product on Amazon". Google products aren't on amazon so it's not really a comparison. We'd have to get the numbers from Walmart and Target.

As for AUX out, while I agree it's a shame, I don't think it impacts as many people as you imply. Chromecast by itself is also amazing value and it brings even more value to the Home mini as you can easily send netflix, youtube and music to your TV (which is connected to your sound system).

While you can get away with the music, for the other actions, you would need a fire stick too.

>> while an echo dot has that aux out already.

It can also stream to a bluetooth speaker.

While those devices are far from perfect they are an evolutionary step in how people are able to interact with technology.

My mother in law does not use a computer or smartphone at all, but she loves to use the Echo because it provides a familiar interface (speech) to services she would use (music, weather, casual information search).

And interacting with voice assistants is a two way street in my opinion. They will get better at understanding what we want and we will adapt to phrase our questions in a way the software understands.

And while I doubt us folks would use a voice assistant to query a solution for an error message on stackoverflow it still provides a convenient way to control music, lights, shutters while our hands are occupied in other ways (cooking, drawing, crafting, ...)

Interesting.

We have an Echo and to this day we haven't found any use for it.

Talking is broadcast and most of the time we search stuff for ourself on mobile. Also, it often simply says it has no answer.

If you create a custom skill you can do almost anything.

Here is our fun little project for Halloween https://youtu.be/BdbjoniAP0s

> We have an Echo and to this day we haven't found any use for it.

I briefly played with the webhook in ifttt and I think the "serverless" aws or Google Cloud could use this as a custom dash button. Instead of going to a dash button and pressing it if you run out of tide, you simply say "echo, trigger detergent" or I'm thinking with custom programming, "echo, trigger [predefined post request here that starts a series of actions]"

It also supports youbsaying Alexa order tide, or Alexa reorder tide. And she will ask you if you want to buy the most recent tide product you purchased again.

I'm the same as IgorPartola, I use it for kitchen timers, music and smart home controls, but I've also written a few skills so it can play movies/shows on my Chromecast, tell me my last bank transaction, etc etc. Those are pretty useful, except the Dot fails to recognize my longer sentences way too often. Sometimes it'll even recognize the skill I want to launch but not the rest of it.

You seem like the person to ask, so... did you write a "Stavros Home" skill (to borrow from your SN) which can do all of that centrally, or multiple skills?

The problem I'm finding is I can train myself to remember about 5 skill names that can each do one or two things, but thats about it. I'm wondering when I write my own, if i should just have a central skill for my house. Also how did you link into the Chromecast? I have a chromecast buried in my Vizio Smartcast TV and i'm wondering how i can link it in.

Smart home control: “Alexa turn the lights on.”

News.

Kitchen timers.

Music control.

These are my most popular uses.

The timers seem good, also music.

Light seems to slow instead of just hitting a button

I guess that depends where the button is located. If you are sitting down on your couch and forgot to turn off the light it definitely beats standing up and walkin back to the door.

If the switch is within reach anyway then I totally agree that a voice command is more cumbersome than just hitting the switch

Decent switches are relatively quick. It's not instant, but in my house close enough that I open the door, say "Alexa turn on the lights" and lights turn on before I close the door behind me.

And Amazon is ahead in cash money dollars, market penetration and app/IoT integrations.

Also, don't think for a second that they're lazing about and not trying to figure out how to surpass Google in the areas where they're behind.

I think they're both barely better than useless, but the software for both is only going to improve. Amazon is going to hire the AI people and build up their own knowledgebase in the A9 team over the next few years, and Google is going to make the partnerships to reach third party skills parity over the next few months.

The right way to choose between them is by looking at the hardware, and the reviews I've seen say that the Echo Dot is too quiet. That can't be fixed in software.

The echo dot is meant to be connected to a speaker. The built-in one is just there for basic functionality.

imo the Echo Dot is better for this very reason. You can hook it up to much nicer speakers compared to what comes fixed with the standard Echo.

The 2nd generation full-sized Echo has Bluetooth/line out support[1].

[1] https://www.amazon.com/All-new-Generation-improved-powered-d...

This is why the Echo Dot has aux out and Bluetooth built-in for external speakers.

This sounds a bit extreme: >I need to be 100% sure that I will get a return on my time invested when it comes to searching or asking for information

It sounds extreme, but it's definitely necessary in order for a service to be treated like a tool. When was the last time your screwdriver decided to fail for undefined reasons? For that matter, how about your text editor?

For something like a voice interface to become second nature, you need to deeply trust that it'll do what you expect. Work with screwdrivers enough and they become an extension of your hand.

I couldn't have explained it better. You've nailed the core issue - Reliability & Robustness. These attributes of a product disappear in the background when it just works.

Voice activated devices, even Google assistant, are far away from the reliability/robustness we expect from a reliable tool. Therefore, they are not tools yet.

They're completely reliable for weather, specific queries like will it rain, timers and music. That's enough to be compelling at the price level.

I trust Amazon more than Google, though; I both expect products to be less aggressively discontinued, and data collection to be less rapacious with Amazon. Amazon also have a known and reasonably moral means of making money. Advertising OTOH is mass manipulation. And Google have too much other information on me especially from search, I need to keep things distributed.

I'm one of the people who bought my partner a Dot. It works very well for the things we've used for so far.

Trusting a corporation, any corporation, is a bad idea. There is nothing there to trust; any ethical behavior by a corporation is a calculated behavior, executed purely for the maximization of profits. Hell, working for a corporation should be viewed as a calculated behavior, as one is working for an entity with a legally mandated anti-human profit incentive. Speaking as a person with a graduate degree in economics, we're on a bad path that needs to be revised soon, or Fermi's Paradox of technological destruction will be our fate.

Trust isn't binary. You need to trust a corporation to use any of their products that aren't solely disconnected goods that can be independently tested. That trust isn't absolute; it's relative. And that's my point: my trust in Amazon is slightly higher than Google.

> I trust Amazon more than Google, though

I used to believe this, and I still do too some extent. Amazon won us over with a great online experience and best in class customer service. However, Amazon is on an explosive expansion phase of expanding their business and pushing vertical integration in all corners. They are rivaling any other company out there in terms of ability to mass manipulate as well.

I have an undisclosed relationship to the man running Amazon India's fashion vertical, and it's easy to see Amazon's position rivaling Google in terms of that feeling of "Google having too much information".

In the end, as I said I still agree with you with Google having to much information (I rely on Google apps and Android to this day), and that diversifying where that information is being gathered and classified is one of the few ways of both using these handy products and impeding companies knowing more about me than I know (a la Netflix video recommendations).

Amazon is now yet another giant to be weary of.

Agree. Had an echo since late 2014 when it came out and now several Google homes. The echo requires rigid language or basically commands you have to memorize to use.

The Google home supports natural language for most things.

I think of the Echo like a command line interface and the Google home like a GUI.

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