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Comment by matt_the_bass | Hacker News Reader

I've often wondered why the us does not have any exit passport controls. It is the only country I've been to that only checks incoming and not outgoing.

I'm not saying they should or shouldn't, just observing.

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Many do have exit checks (EU, most of Asia), but many don't (US, most of the Americas). I'd assume some of it in the US occurs when you buy the ticket... however, in some places you could still enter Mexico without a passport (returning is a challenge!).

The bigger issue is that Congress hasn't issued a specific mandate for this collection (by a private entity) and spending authority for the apparently ~$1B program. The article's concerns are for a more intrusive security state without congressional authority.

DHS’ current face scan-based program also may not comply with federal law. The program may exceed the authority granted to DHS by Congress because Congress has never explicitly authorized biometric collections from Americans at the border.26 Even if DHS has sufficient legal authority for the program, DHS has failed to complete a prerequisite public rulemaking process for the program, as mandated by federal law.

> The bigger issue is that Congress hasn't issued a specific mandate for this collection (by a private entity) and spending authority for the apparently ~$1B program. The article's concerns are for a more intrusive security state without congressional authority.

Posted about this 200 days ago.

"The first legislative mandate for an automated identity check on departing foreign visitors dates back to the 1996 Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, and since 9/11 Congress has passed three laws requiring the Department of Homeland Security to set up a biometric exit system."

Doesn't address the citizen part but they'll sell it as "national security" and of course citizen data is immediately discarded </s>.

https://www.fedscoop.com/cbp-will-implement-long-mandated-bi...

Edit: Apparently they responded to this report a few days ago: https://www.fedscoop.com/cbp-biometric-and-face-recognition-...

I accidentally* drove past the US southern border into Tijuana from San Diego without passport control, there was only an automated plate reader managed by US CBP. I also did not have my passport or passport card on me.

Coming back the same day, there was a line to drive back into the US that took several hours. Luckily, I was allowed back in with a driver’s license by the agent.

*I was dropping off 2 American friends who were taking a day trip to visit Tijuana, but the road signs were terribly marked and I crossed over unintentionally.

I've always wondered how re-entering the US is without a passport. You should be able to do it, and you should be scrutinized about it heavily.(Sounds suspicious)

Up until 2004, it was completely normal for US citizens to travel to Canada and Mexico (and back, of course) without a passport.

Reentry theoretically shouldn't require a passport, as long as you can prove citizenship.

I can testify to the process for something similar since I had a passport stolen when I was traveling in Spain. I went into the consulate, told them what happened and they asked me a few questions about my hometown (high school I went to, favorite restaurant, previous address). They noted my answers and had me fill out the normal passport form (including new photos) and assured me it would be ready in just under a week so I wouldn't miss my flight home. It was pretty painless, though I'd bet that just appearing American (accent, skin color, etc) might've helped.

I was talking about entering the country without one. You received a backup one outside of the country.

Well, it's the same authentication problem of validating US citizenship without documentation. And the passport I was issued was in no way a backup, it was valid for the normal 10-year period and, apart from the note that said it was issued at the US embassy in Madrid, identical to one I would have been issued through the normal process inside the US.

There are 1000's of kilometers (miles if you prefer) of unsecured border in the North. You could leave and re-enter the US without being aware of it, much easier still on the lakes.

It's literally the definition of "a free country"

Specifically it was always used as a sharp contrast with the policies of the Soviet Bloc which did not allow people to freely leave their countries.

> It's literally the definition of "a free country"

citation needed. First off, it does, but it only becomes visible to passengers when they violate the conditions and try to re-enter. Second, this is not the definition of a 'free country'. Third, by modern definitions of a 'free contry' (1) the USA should not be considered 'THE land of the free'.

(1) https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/freedom-world-...

You can have your rights to leave the country stripped away by being accused of felonies, a judge can take away your PP, and even renewals can be rejected if you owe the government money.

The definition of "free country" is not zero passport controls on exit, and:

    Robeson declared that it was “rather absurd” that he was
    not “allowed to travel because of my friendship - open,
    spoken friendship - for the Soviet people and the
    peoples of all the world.”

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/paul-robeson-lose...

No it isn't. The right to depart and the right to do so without being recorded are two different hings.

Answers on Quora suggest it's automated, and invisible to most people. https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-US-not-have-immigration-c...

I've never understood why other countries have the exit controls. What is the point?

The second "stamp" allows them to track how long you were in the country and which country to left through (which may not check on exit either). For visas (especially EU) this is a big deal, because you (as a US citizen) are not required to apply for a short term business/tourist visa, but you can't stay more than 30days. If you exit through the UK, however, you may not receive the exit stamp (e.g. EuroStar). They may then deny you re-entry due to the apparent violation.

If you Eurostar out from schengen to the UK, you pass through schengen exit check, then a few yards later Uk entry check.

I assume that Americans get exit stamps at the first check. Most countries that stamp passports give entry and exit stamps, whether you have a visa or not. More and more counties rely on computers to keep track of you though - Israel used to stamp you at Tel Aviv, now you get a piece of paper that you return on exit (you still et stamped at Erez when going in/out of Gaza). In 2015 Australia stamped when you use the manual system, but not the automatic system. I don't recall if the US stamped my passport last time on the way in, I don't think Canada did. Hong Kong stopped in 2013 I think.

It's a shame, I like stamps. Plenty of them at Lagos last month though - 2 stamps on the way in, 2 on the way out, as well as the full page visa.

I think the Eurostar is the only port of exit in the U.K. where I _have_ had my passport checked - at least at my airport, exit passport checks are only random

I've had mine checked every time I've been on a ferry, and every time I'm taken a plane.

I can't think of any other ways to leave the UK than by boat, train, and aeroplane, and I've been checked at all of them.

By airline/train or UKBF staff? There’s a difference as airport staff won’t check visa validity etc or do the entry checks that are the subject of this chain.

UKBF checks passports on departure at the Eurostar. At manchester airport at least, there are no routine outbound passport checks by UKBF

No, that's actually French border control. On the Eurostar, you clear the destination border when you check in, so that when you arrive you simply walk out.

You pass both, there are two desks. U.K. border first, then European

Not on the way out. Just Schengen checks in London (same on eurotunnel). And those stupid security checks.

On travelling to the continent by boat (hook of holland) checks at the far end. Eurostar checks at re near end. Flying checks at the far end.

The limit for the US (and most other Western non-EU nationals) within Schengen is 90 within 180. Neither the UK nor Ireland are part of that area.

I got into a bit of trouble once in a flight to Switzerland before it was in the shengen. I took the train into Italy, flew from Italy to Berlin, and on the flight back, the exit visa agents wanted to know why I didn’t have an entry stamp (they do random checks on the train, so no stamp).

Catching wanted criminals and suspects as they try to leave the country. Flagging people who have overstayed their visa when they try to leave so that they can't come back. If someone tries to leave on a stolen or fake passport, it is cheaper to catch it before they exit than when they try to enter somewhere else.

I can see the "before they leave the country" part. This isn't as big of problem in the US as we only have land borders with two countries, and those borders are far away from most people. If the police are looking for you they can find you when you book/board a flight out of the US, even without exit controls. Heck, they're likely sharing that list of people of interest with Canada and Mexico so that they can be caught by the entrance controls at those land crossings.

They do that in Panama. (They even do intracontry travel id checks) Apparently they've had issues with criminals coming in and hiding in the jungles)

Criminals in Panama typically hide in Parliament. They're even passing laws to ensure they can't be prosecuted for their crimes by creatively changing the statue of limitations. They make Romania look good.

Yet the onus is on visitors to prove that they did not overstay their visa, if leaving by land/sea, or if by some airline/airport fluke the departing passenger list didn't make it over to the DHS.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1674/~/report-d...

They do not care.

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