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> The conclusion I draw from this is that some of the symptoms that we associate with viruses actually comes from the under-production of our normal enzymes.

The conclusion I would have drawn is that different assaults on the metabolism can create similar symptoms.

Out of curiosity, beyond the weakness, how painful / unpleasant was the experience ?

I've read in an account collated from a hunger strike participant that starving is a bit unpleasant the first few days and then pretty much OK (which I was pretty skeptical of); albeit apparently the more overweight you are initially the more unpleasant and painful it is, at first at least. Although of course 12 days is comparatively short. I'm still curious if you have anything to comment on this description though ?

I believe the source where I've read this account was here: https://books.google.fr/books?id=ipQDHj1aAe4C&pg=PA111&lpg=P... . It's a fascinating, if a bit morbid, read. The guy stopped eating for 68 days, and ended up weighting 44kg.

As an example, on the 11th day, I decided to go to the Verizon store and get a new iPhone, because my old iPhone was having problems. So I walked to the iPhone store. I felt very weak, and I was sweating. The experience was surprising because I'd gone for a long walk on the 7th day and I'd felt fine. But by the 11th day, on a long walk, I felt like I was walking up a steep hill, even though I was walking on flat terrain. At the Verizon store I appeared normal and I had a good conversation with the sales clerk. Then I walked towards home. I felt much weaker on the way home. I stopped to buy water at a connivence store. The sales clerk asked if I was okay. I explained that I was sick. She said I looked sick.

I walked a total of 8 kilometers, which isn't much, but it felt like a serious hike. I felt very sick that night, and I fell asleep early and I slept for 12 hours.

But when I woke up in the morning, I felt good. I had energy and mental focus. And then that faded away over the course of the day. Which is the other thing about a long fast -- you still have good stretches, even after 12 days, but they become increasingly rare.

I think those people who go 2 weeks without food and then claim they feel great are simply taking for granted the fact that they are resting a great deal, and they expect you to take it for granted as well. Nobody goes 2 weeks without food and continues to have the same energy level, sustained over an entire day, as someone healthy who is eating normally.

Thank you for your response. I imagine in the case of a hunger strike in prison - which the above testimony was about - the fact that you're basically not moving all day must help with the weakness (not to mention slow down the actual starving due to lack of calories burning).

I have read that once your body starts burning muscle tissue it gets really painful. Thank God I have not experienced this. 10 days fasting is not bad. Towards the end I felt losing strength but otherwise was fine. I would not recommend doing this in a normal workday setting though.

Yeah, I've read that too and it seems logical; but again, the account I linked above says it isn't (which is what I found weird) - it says mostly you experience weakness but not pain, at least not after a few days.

Due to medical issues I fasted for 10 weeks. After around 1.5 months, I was getting nutrients via IV, though. I lost an average of a pound per day in weight.

I was active and felt great for most of it. ~

Due to medical issues I fasted for 10 weeks. After around 1.5 months, I was getting nutrients via IV, though. I lost an average of a pound per day in weight.

I felt great for most of it.

After about a week of no carbohydrates your body would enter ketosis, which uses a parallel set of metabolic processes that burn ketones rather than carbs. The onset of ketosis is marked by really clear flu-like symptoms. After ~48 hours those disappear and everything is ok again. Do you think that could have been what you were experiencing? Your body will fall out of ketosis very quickly as soon as you have some carbs.

I'm about a week into a ketogenic diet and I am having flu-like symptoms. I woke to my sinuses being very inflamed but no amount of sudafed or benadryl seemed to make any difference. Then suddenly this afternoon I started sweating profusely and my nasal passages opened right up. It's been a real trip!

>The onset of ketosis is marked by really clear flu-like symptoms

I tried a ketogenic diet once out of curiosity (confirmed ketosis with urine testing) and I did not experience this. I have read many other anecdotes of people who also did not experience it.

I've experienced what's commonly called the "keto flu". Whenever I get back on a keto diet, I drink a lot of electrolytes, get plenty of vitamins, and that seems to mitigate most of the symptoms. It definitely feels like a cold or the flu when it happens, though without a fever.

Ok. I did experience it. It would be unsurprising if there is biological variability in this. But from the parent's description if they did experience symptoms like it, it seems like ketone flu is a highly likely explanation.

The flu like symptoms are mostly electrolyte imbalance in my experience. You lose a lot of water weight and salt.

Although I had not heard that reasoning before, I was told to increase water and salt consumption, which I did. Possibly this could have prevented any flu-like symptoms.

When you deplete glycogen (you can store about 500 grams of it), you also lose 3 grams of water per gram of glycogen. So in total, you lose about 1.5 liters of water once you're fully glycogen depleted.

I don't think 12 days is nearly enough time to deplete your protein, especially if you have weight to lose.

Fasting/ketosis is protein sparing in and of itself, and if you have extra weight to lose, you have extra skin surrounding that fat which can be recycled.

its long enough to become potassium deficient which is not a fun trip, but it should be a trip - to the ER for an IV drip.

Yep, a lot of people who are in to fasting will add lite salt to their water to prevent that.

For anyone interested, there is a video on Amazon Prime called The Science of Fasting 2016.

Just watched it and was really unimpressed. For a documentary titled "the science of fasting" they really went out of their way to find the least credible sources and seemed to try appeal as much as possible to consumers of alternative and holistic medicine. Secret, untranslated texts by open-minded Soviet researchers, Western science rejecting studies out of a bias against unprofitable treatments, genetic memories of starving on the savannah, body resets and cleansing...I know a lot of people who are into fasting would really like that stuff, but I was hoping to find a description of fasting that avoided those sources.

Why did you decide to fast for 12+ days?

Health benefits. There is a whole world of study regarding the health benefits of long fasts. It gives your immune system a chance to generate a greater variety of responses to different pathogens. Also, it might have some benefit in staving off cancer, as it has been shown to offer aid with chemotherapy. See here:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fasting-might-boo...

Why 12 days though? Did you quit after seeing the downturn, or were you planning on 12 to begin with?

Social obligations. Which is what always ends my fasts. I had scheduled to do some traveling and meet some friends. I ate vegetarian food for the first week after the fast. It was two days till I got my strength back, and several more days before I felt 100%. I've read there is a unique kind of diabetes that comes up when you do a long fast. When we say "diabetes" we tend to think of Type II, which comes from over-eating, but I've read that "diabetes" actually refers to any disregulation of the insulin response. And it makes sense that we wouldn't have much of an insulin response after 12 days without food. Because the purpose of insulin is to sweep excess nutrition out of our blood stream and into our cells, especially our fat cells, but if you've just gone 12 days without food, then there is no excess -- the cells are desperate for whatever nutrition they can get.

> I've read that "diabetes" actually refers to any disregulation of the insulin response

I am assuming you know the difference between type 1 and 2 diabetes, but for the benefit of other people reading this, please be aware that in type 1 diabetes, the body's response to insulin is irrelevant - the body (pancreas) does not produce insulin at all, and thus it is necessary to inject insulin. It is a wholly different condition from type 2 diabetes.

Diabetes, technically, refers to the production of excessive urine. Hence the two major diseases called diabetes, diabetes mellitus (sugary diabetes) and diabetes insipidus (tasteless diabetes, an unrelated disease). Generally, people are only talking about diabetes mellitus, of which there are several etiologies. While some conditions are on the spectrum of insulin resistance (metabolic syndrome, polycystic ovarian syndrome), you wouldn't call it diabetes unless the urine contains glucose.