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Comment by desdiv | Hacker News Reader

>The reason, as it was explained to me, was that in 2015 I had broken Chinese law when I failed to present myself to authorities in Beijing when I had visited and stayed at an Airbnb residence on two different trips. Unbeknownst to me at the time — and something that was not communicated by Airbnb — foreigners are required to register at a local police station, but in most cases the hotels where they stay handle this.

This rule is clearly explained on the back of the immigration declaration form which every visitor must personally fill out[0]. It is, in fact, item number one.

Yes, China is a totalitarian shithole. But then again some democratic countries like Japan have similar "register at local police station" rules too, so I'm very surprised that someone who spent a decade in Asia would be unaware of it.

[0] http://sydney.chineseconsulate.org/eng/gdtp/P020071009492059...

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I live in Japan for quite some time (multiple years) and never had to, or heard about, having to "register at local police station".

It’s not at the police station but you still have to register at the ward office when you’re moving to a new city.

Also as a "fun" fact, residence cards features the logo of the ministry of justice. Just like if all foreigners were criminal with such a high probability that this minister handle the matter from the beginning.

Sure, also because you're going to pay taxes into that ku (city), and they deal with pension and health insurance, even if you're not a foreigner you're going to have to register.

Your residence card gets updated every time you change your address and you do have to go to the ward office for them to update it, but that's hardly "register at the police station".

Edit:

Most if not all the things we have to do, as foreigners, Japanese also have to do it.

The big difference is we're required to have an updated/valid residence card (ID), while Japanese don't need to carry ID.

I'm from Europe, and in my country everyone has an ID and is "required" to have it so I don't actually see the big deal, maybe I'm just uninformed.

"Most if not all the things we have to do, as foreigners, Japanese also have to do it."

Chinese also have to register at the local police station when they move. It's not just for foreigners.

in Japan you do not have to register if you are just visiting somewhere

Right, but my point wasn't that the requirements are the same. I was pointing out that the parent statement "Most if not all the things we have to do, as foreigners, Japanese also have to do it." applies to China, too.

The 'registration at local police station' was just an example of one such policy.

Exactly. As a visitor you don’t have to “register at the local police station”. Just if you’re a resident.

Meanwhile, I managed to move from New Zealand to Australia and didn't have to fill in a single form.

>Also as a "fun" fact, residence cards features the logo of the ministry of justice. Just like if all foreigners were criminal with such a high probability that this minister handle the matter from the beginning.

No different than US which takes a presumption of guilt when people apply for a visa isnt it?

Yea, I think maybe he is confusing having to always have your passport/gaijin card on you to present to police anytime they feel like bothering you.

Yea, such rule is in place where I live too. Any guest staying over 24 hours need to report to the local authorities, both domestics or international. Many countries requires an official identification such as IC or passport upon hotel check-in as well.

Although in my case its more about the neighbourhood security rather than a big-brother-watching kind of deal. The registrations aren't centralized or anything, and in most cases, are never read again unless something happened in the neighbourhood.

Ya no fan of totalitarian policy, but if you try to skirt immigration laws anywhere, it won't work out well for you.

Here in the U.S., I have to notify ICE everytime I change my address.], or I would be deported. Never had the courage to test them...

You have to notify the USCIS, not ICE.

Yep my bad. Should be USCIS

> Here in the U.S., I have to notify ICE everytime I change my address

Yeah, like OP said, "totalitarian shithole"

> democratic countries like Japan

To be fair, Japan has only existed as a functioning democracy for a very, very short time, and it still keeps a number of aspects from its previous past as a feudal/centrally governed country.

Japan has been a functioning democracy for longer than any state outside of Western Europe or the Western European settler colonies. It had a functioning but fragile democracy from shortly after the beginning of the Meiji period until it ended after the Great Depression. That places it on company with Germany and Italy.

Could you expand on the aspects you think are remnantis of its past? The Imperial Family and Household are not mentioned in the constitution and there’s no aristocracy. I’m sure it’s dominated by Tokyo and the national government but it seems unlikely to be more centralised than England, or the U.K., tout court.

There are many democracies younger than Japan.

Yes, basically all the ones coming from the decolonization era. Most of them are pretty unstable, unfortunately.

Thailand, where the author said he lives, also has a similar "register at local police station" rule. Even when you live full time in Thailand, if you stay overnight somewhere other than your normal residence you are supposed to report it. Or the hotel or homeowner is supposed to report it. Rarely enforced,except when it's time to make a another big show of cracking down on dirty foreigners making trouble in the country.

A friend got slapped with a fine over this. He's a foreign resident, and he changed hotels while on a trip. That information is bundled up and sent to the authorities, and they cross-checked him with the address he put on his travel form. Thousand baht fine.

FWIW, I brought this same friend to the police station where I'm a registered resident in Shanghai, so he could stay with me on a 72-hour visa. At the airport, he was told that if he doesn't register and it's discovered, it could affect his ability to get a visa in the future. This was only a few months ago.

Not just china. A few years back I flew from Vancouver to the RSA convention in SF. I was so put off by the hotel that had been booked for me that I didn't check in. That night I got a call on my cellphone from ICE as I had not checked in at the hotel I had listed on my entrance form. Nothing came of it. But they do check on these things.

How did they get your car home number? They typically don't ask for it on customs forms.

Not sure. I think they called the first hotel. I come in and out of the US all the time for work and was once a student there. I assume they have some sort of immigration file on me that probably has various contact details.

France and Germany have the same rules for residents and for visitors France and some parts of Germany (e.g. Bayern last time I was there) require it. In the us for the past 15 years or so my ID has always been copied/scanned when staying in a hotel.

When I first went to the UK in 2004 as a student they had the same regulation. Register with local police within something like 7 days. Though this later turned out to be not very strictly enforced.

> This rule is clearly explained on the back of the immigration declaration form

Is this in English/other languages, or just in Mandarin?

The only part of this story that I find particularly egregious is the part where he was made to sign a form that was only in Mandarin.

Mandarin is the local rule of law language. All contracts I've ever signed that were dual language say that if any conflicts arise, the Chinese language contract will be the one used to settle the dispute. This is reasonable. You would not have immigration officers in the US telling people to sign documents written in Chinese, would you? For one thing, local officials would be unable to process those papers efficiently. Whether or not lawyers are present who can help ensure due process and explain to the person what's being signed is a completely separate matter from which language should be used.

edit: comments below would cause me to change my thoughts, though I'll leave the above text unedited for history's sake.

Australian immigration and customs officials will supply translations of the main forms for all the major European and Asian languages that travellers tend to speak and interpreters for cases where they're considering refusing clearance or cancelling a visa. I would expect most Western countries would have the ability to do that.

> This is reasonable. You would not have immigration officers in the US telling people to sign documents written in Chinese, would you?

Well they do, for the record, if you enter at the right port.

It is in English on the back of the immigration form. There is really no excuse for not knowing about it. As mentioned in the article, you don't need to worry about it if you stay in a proper hotel, only if you are staying at someone's residence.

You have to declare where you are staying on the customs declaration card in the US and UK amongst other countries too.

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