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Comment by kibwen | Hacker News Reader

I receive about 20 spam calls per day. In contrast, I receive about 0.2 legitimate calls per day.

Google itself suspects that these are spam calls, because it pops up a bright red "SUSPECTED SPAM CALLER" warning when the phone begins ringing. And yet, I have found no option to have the phone automatically decline the call. There's not even an option to silence the ringer for any call not from my contacts; I actually had to disable my ringer for all callers, by default, and then manually, one at a time, set a custom ringtone for each of my contacts.

This is completely absurd. Why is it so hard to configure my phone to only allow my friends to interrupt me at any moment of the day, rather than any rando? Turns out, I might also hate telephones.

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Strangely enough, given Android's comparatively-customizable nature, I think this is an area where iOS does it better? (Others might correct me.)

iOS 10 added "call blocking" as an app-type, which lets you choose apps which can filter phone calls for you. They can flag calls as possible-spam, or completely block them. (See [1] for Hiya's options screen, as an example.)

An "only ring for my friends" feature is sort of possible. You can keep your phone in "do not disturb" mode, and add people who you want to be able to call you to your "VIPs" list to let them through. That's a fair bit of manual management, though, which is a pain.

I don't think it's possible to make a call-blocker app which functions as a whitelist, sadly, because I think this is like their browser content blockers and operates as the app providing a list of blocked numbers for privacy reasons.

[1]: https://imgur.com/a/Yftxy

Hiya exists for Android as well and has very high ratings [1]. I have used Android since v3 and you have been able to change the dialer to a custom app for at least that long.

You have also been able to limit ringing while in Do Not Disturb to starred contacts only, or even just "contacts" to eliminate the need to manage it like you mentioned [2].

[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.webascende...

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15678075

Informative, thanks! I admit a notable chunk of my reasoning there was that the OP couldn't find a way to do it, so it probably wasn't built in. (I haven't used Android seriously in the last 5 years or so.)

Android can absolutely do this. Either via settings or replacing the default calling app.

How can you do this via settings in Android? I've spent hours searching for the answer and have yet to find it.

Add spammers phone as a contact, then select "all calls to voicemail" for that contact.

That's not a very useful solution if I have to do it once for each spammer. You wouldn't accept that for e-mail.

You can't add "Private Number" as a contact, nor can you block it.

Even pre-smartphone landline systems could block (or route direct to VM) numbers with blocked caller ID.

You absolutely can block such numbers in the stock Android phone app; some online sources indicate iOS lacks this basic feature, but I don't know if they are accurate and current.

How do you block calls from numbers with blocked caller ID in the stock Android phone app? I can't find that option.

“block unknown callers” in the call blocking settings.

That doesn't exist in the latest version of the app. If I go to Settings->Call Blocking it's just a button labeled "ADD A NUMBER" plus a list of blocked numbers. The ADD A NUMBER button triggers a popup with an input field that only allows phone numbers.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=se.embargo.blo...

Spammers use a spoofed caller ID with the same first 3 digits as your phone number so it looks like a local number sO blocking them by number doesn’t really work.

So let's make a daemon app which calls that exact number on the 2nd SIM and if it's not busy drops both calls.

I agree with you. I've tried to block each one of them for maybe months, but nothing's changed. I still get at least 2-3 calls each day from them. I think ignoring them is the best option for us now, or if you would, just answer their calls, ask their company name, and sue them because of their multiple calls. I just read about this at http://www.whycall.me/news/my-4500-payday-from-a-telemarkete....

Spammers generate random numbers in your area code for each call though, they don't call from the same number twice.

Can't. You can block individual numbers, but there is no tool in the base Android to block all unknowns. Fortunately there are plenty of apps which will do exactly that - but I'm confused as to why I need to install an app to do something so simple.

Because if any core OS had to contain every feature which is deemed "simple" then that OS will become bloated and complex.

Well “blocking” isn’t the same as “not ringing”, right?

The solution someone suggested elsewhere in this thread is to use make the default ringtone silence, then assign audible ringtones to all your contacts.

> I don't think it's possible to make a call-blocker app which functions as a whitelist, sadly, because I think this is like their browser content blockers and operates as the app providing a list of blocked numbers for privacy reasons.

Oh, that must be why the AT&T Call Protect app fails to block spammers the first time they call me. Always wondered about that.

There's only 10,000,000,000 phone numbers, not even eliminating area codes that don't exist. I wonder if iOS will break on that...?

Parent's phone is weird that it doesn't have a call-blocking feature. All flagship androids give you the option to block spam calls.

Even if the number changes every time? The common pattern lately is a number with the same leading six digits as my actual phone number, followed by a presumably falsified last four digits. As far as I know, these are randomly generated.

The problem with Hiya as I understand it is that it is limited by CallKit list size. I'm not 100% sure of this, but I think Apple's implementation requires a fully offline call list so that your phone calls are not sent to a public server and could be logged. This means that the number of phone numbers that Hiya can call spam must be downloaded ahead of time and loaded into CallKit. What I see often is that a phone number will not be flagged as spam, but if I query the number through the app later, it will correctly show it as spam. Someone correct my if I am wrong, but I think this is the problem.

I was looking at F-Droid repo and found QuiteSleep from 2012 which has option to "block unknown", so seems android solved this long ago.

I have my phone set to "Do Not Disturb" and it allows me to define that only starred contacts or regular contacts are allowed to get through. Given that most people I know rarely ever call I think it's a sane enough config setting. I have an Android Phone, more specifically an LG G5. No app required in my case, it's just hidden in the settings.

This isn't exactly what you're asking for but on Android: Settings > Sound > Do Not Disturb > Allowed in Priority Only > Calls From Contacts Only (or Calls from Starred Contacts Only if you really want to lock it down).

Optionally enable: If the same person calls a second time within a 15 minute period, allow it (might allow someone really trying to reach you to get through, might also allow a spam caller through).

I appreciate the advice, I hadn't considered using DND, but wouldn't that also silence e.g. texts as well?

I tried this on iOS and it doesn’t work well because it turns off all other notifications.

While calls do get through from your contacts, you don’t get notifications for anything.

I really just want a contacts whitelist, but since that isn’t an option I use nomorobo which is a subscription service that works really well to block spam calls for $2/month. It’s an iOS app, focuses on not uploading your stuff to their servers, and doesn’t collect your call logs.

Just use the Do Not Disturb feature on iOS

I’m saying that it doesn’t work well because Do Not Disturb blocks all notifications.

Do Not Disturb has a variety of options on iOS that can allow calls from your contacts and blocks all others.

People get other notifications that they want to see besides calls though.

Dnd-priority on Android does not silence texts from known contacts, I've been forced to use it because of spam calls too.

I have an s7 and I star every important number. I use use IFTTT to enable DND automaticaly at 22.00 and disable it at 8.00. Is very convinient. I can also filter an app for example whatsapp to pass DND and ring.

The best option I've turned up for most phones is:

1. Set a custom default ringtone.

2. Choose a silent wav file for this.

3. Assign a custom non-silent ringtone for selected known callers. (The ability to assign ringtones by groups helps here.)

Agreed that the situation is insane. I've stopped carrying a phone entirely, for this and other reasons. I can be reached, if necessary, by other means.

It also turns out that AT&T's chief lobbyist's contact inforation is available via FCC filings, and the number listed rings through to his voicemail. I've taken to letting him know about the spam phone call problem.

Bob Quinn.

I don't get enough (any) spam calls to do this, but have you ever thought about using http://www.jollyrogertelco.com/?

Instead of blocking the spam calls, it connects a bot that ties up the caller in a pointless conversation for as long as it can. I'm sure this would result in the telemarketers removing you from their lists themselves.

Too useless for actually ignoring your phone.

I implemented a system similar to this, where callers would be automatically given an explanation of not wanting to be called. After that they were put on a direct line with Rick Astley’s best hit.

It also customizes the message by looking for the caller number on spam services, and greeting them. At some point, I stopped receiving unwanted calls.

20 spam calls per day? That sounds like torture... is there really no body in USA that would prevent that from happening?

(I've never received a spam call on my now 20 year old phone number.)

In theory there's the national do not call registry: https://www.donotcall.gov/

In practice... there's some groups who are still allowed to call you even if you're on the registry. Others will just ignore it, and filing a complaint is difficult.

I added all my numbers to this list a year or two ago and shortly after the spam calls started. Even on numbers that are not publicly used. (I have Google voice as my primary number and it calls my mobile number and a voip desk phone. Now all three get spam calls. I had them for years and the voip and mobile numbers were previously clean. )

There's only so many phone numbers. It's easy to iterate over them.

I posted this elsewhere in this topic, but my experience with the Federal Do Not Call list was the exact opposite - they promised "within 3 months the calls would stop" and sure enough, within 3 months I never got another call.

Fair, I just checked and it looks like my number was already in the registry when they started getting worse a few years ago. (so adding it again probably did not cause the increase) You can use the site to see if you are already in, and when you were added. one of my numbers was added long before I had it.

You can file a complaint with the FTC but with the volume of calls and Caller ID spoofing it's probably more trouble than it's worth. Every now and then some operation gets taken down and fined but it's rare.

Consider yourself lucky to never gets calls of this type. Between the out and out scammers and pollsters/political calls/charities (the latter categories are protected from landline junk call bans), I routinely get 3 or 4 a day.

Just another reason why it sucks here.

The internet myth is that it doesn't work but all you have to do is answer and ask them to put you on their do not call list.

Not give them a big tiresome speech about how they are breaking the law, just ask them not to call anymore ("Please put this number on your courtesy do not call list"). They actually don't want to waste their time...

This depends on the caller.

A lot of the calls I used to get were the ones where they spoof a phone number that has the same first few digits as yours to make it seem like a local number and then the caller is a scammer “You owe money to the IRS”, “Your computer has a virus and you have to pay to fix it”.

Engaging these callers is probably not useful.

No, it is useful, they still don't want to waste time calling people that aren't going to take part in the scam.

Man i should get you to talk to my spam with that magic +5 robot charisma.

Unfortunately, it still won’t prevent my number from being spammed. There is no human to talk to. Any indication you are alive is a confirmation your phone number is worth calling. The only thing you can do to convince them is not answer or somehow communicate a likely disconnection from a human.

So have you tried the approach I am advocating for a meaningful amount of time, say a week or two, or are you just sure that it won't work and thus avoid it because you are worried that you will do things like confirm you are worth calling?

Honestly I haven’t collected enough sample attempts to be sure. However, not answering unknown phone numbers seems to have worked very well.

Which makes them easy to spot if you get a number from a far away area. The only calls I get from my phone's area code are misdials or spam, but my doctor's office stands out without a whitelist.

A lot of the spam calls I get are just recordings or they just hang up once I pick up. Hard to imagine it would help to just say "please add me to your do not call list" into the void...

I also receive a lot of those (around ~5 a day, for more than 5 months already). It is really annoying and makes me wish I could just block numbers on my phone.

Try listening to the end, there is often a number to press to have them stop calling.

The internet myth is that this marks you as someone to keep calling (because you listened), but really they will stop.

That you had some luck being removed from some legitimate call lists does not mean that you can dismiss these extremely common tactics as "Internet myths." There's a whole spectrum of spam callers that ranges from respectable businesses all the way to outright scammers. Some use illegal tactics like the ones you're trying to say are a myth and literally everyone I've ever talked to in person about the issue has had a similar experience.

The illegal tactics aren't what I am calling a myth. It's the idea that asking illegal callers to stop doesn't work that I am calling a myth. Even scammers are concerned with efficiency.

I mean, I get ~1 unwanted call a week across a couple of phone numbers (that I answer and ask to stop). Other people are saying that they get a dozen a day and giving up on their phones. My anecdotes work for me.

It's interesting that you assume it's a myth. I can personally attest to answering spam calls, politely asking to be added to the do not call list, and still receiving calls from the same spammers over a period of months. Eventually I just downloaded a call blacklist app.

You probably have to stay on the phone while they do it though.

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way, the ones that DO give you the option to be 'do not call' will forward your number to other spammers, actually increasing the spam calls you get. Do not ask them to put you on the d-n-c list!

Here's what does work (in my experience): answer the call, but say nothing, heck, mute your phone mic if you have to. Just give them silence. I'm not sure if there's some 'person on the other end' detection algorithm or what, but I went from 10-15 spam calls a day to 1 every few days. It took a little while, but it worked. Just don't answer strange numbers with a 'hello?', if someone's trying to reach you, they'll usually say it first.

I like to answer the phone, say “please hold” then put my headphones up to the phone. This is great because it triggers whatever automated system they have to get active callers on the line, and wastes the time of a real human, who might realize what’s going on and prevent the system from calling my number again to begin with.

> Here's what does work (in my experience): answer the call, but say nothing, heck, mute your phone mic if you have to. Just give them silence.

I don't get that many spam calls, but what I do when I get one varies from answering and immediately hanging up to doing what you suggested (which usually results in them disconnecting after about 5 seconds). Occasionally, I've done things like answering the call and snapping my fingers in the receiver instead of saying "hello" and that usually results in an immediate disconnect.

I'm not sure if any of those things have affected the volume of spam calls I receive though.

Hey this is exactly what I do! Answer and then mute immediately. Any real person will just say "hello?" and the bots get confused and just hang up (and don't call back). I get 1 spam call every 2 months maybe.

> Unfortunately it doesn't work that way, the ones that DO give you the option to be 'do not call' will forward your number to other spammers, actually increasing the spam calls you get. Do not ask them to put you on the d-n-c list!

Anybody legitimate that's not true. But it's so easy to spoof your number that there are a lot of bad actors.

Are you talking about internal Do Not Call lists or the actual Federal Do Not Call list? Because I used to have that issue with credit card companies, random loan spammers, and such with both mail and phone call spam. I signed up for the list with a 100% opt-out option and just like it promised, within 3 months, the offers stopped coming in.

That being said, I also try to be pretty careful about putting my phone number out there, taking time to judge when a real phone number is needed or not, and asking pretty specifically for what reason a company wants my phone number and often just ignoring the service if an adequate reason isn't given.

Since I've moved abroad, I have apparently been less careful and I occasionally get calls and texts on my foreign sim, and I must have given my email out as there are suddenly lots of hot-singles looking for me, but it is 100% related to my current region, whereas before my Spam folder sat untouched.

Both really. Companies face fines if they keep calling people after they request to be put on a do not call list so it's a big deal. That's how I remember my experience at a call center anyway.

I used to work in tech at a call center and that would confuse the auto-dialer software. It's designed to know a person and designed to know voicemail. But just silence is a new one! Good strategy.

Many years ago I used to take the time to put the calling number into a ProComm script for a modem to dial repeatedly every 3 minutes for several hours, if they were toll free to me (expense to the original caller). I had way too much time on my hands then...

> There's not even an option to silence the ringer for any call not from my contacts;

It's called Do Not Disturb, with Allow Exceptions, Calls from My Contacts Only. Android has it, and iOS does to (I think the options are even similarly named.)

> Why is it so hard to configure my phone to only allow my friends to interrupt me at any moment of the day, rather than any rando?

It's not that hard. EDIT: or maybe it is, because phones are complex devices with opaque UIs with poor discoverability. But the information is out there.

I can do it from my Android. I have a block list/block all unknown. It's super easy to access

You can install apps on Android that you can fine-tune what happens when a call is incoming.

I set it up to immediately hang up any private numbers and not report a missed call, set it up to hang on up non-private numbers that are not in my address book and show a missed call, and it lets everyone else through who is in my address book.

Since doing this I couldn't be happier. I can't remember the last time I got an unsolicited call.

I don't have voicemail because I don't know how to set it up to have a recorded message that doesn't accept voicemails. I'd like to set it up so that I can say 'you can contact me on this email address' but not accept a voicemail message, then it'd be perfect.

The people who need to be able to contact me are already in my address book. Everyone else can send me an email.

Blocklist plus (app) on android totally solves this problem. Anything from either an unknown number or from something not in your address book gets routed directly to voicemail (doesnt even show up on your screen).

I recently switched my main phone to IOS and it is by far the feature I miss the most.

I've had a similar experience with the spam calls. I don't get quite as many per day, but ~90% of the calls I receive are spam. I just don't answer my phone anymore unless it's my wife, my mom, or one of my brothers. I direct all other calls to voicemail after grumbling about being interrupted.

I haven't found a good solution for auto directing spam calls to voicemail beyond using Do Not Disturb from 8 pm to 7 am.

I recently bought a land line phone because mobile reception in my house was terrible and attending work meetings was troublesome. One of these days I start getting spam on the landline and then I realised there is no "reject" or "silent" button. I had to pickup a call to reject it which seemed like a chore in the age of mobile phones.

I think that depends on the phone model. I recall owning a cordless home phone years ago where you could just hit the Hang Up button without answering first.

I have an antispam for phone calls with my ISP (free.fr). It works very well.

I advertise for that around me. Operators can stop that if they want.

I receive a similar number of spam calls per day and have turned off my ringer entirely as a result. At first I used a feature that enables the ringer for the second call from the same number in a short period, but then the calls started coming in batches of 3 (usually all from the same number, but always from the same area code and prefix).

Very frustrating

T-Mobile US offers an option to block assumed scam calls. I assume they use the same database as Google does. Works very well.

May be not much convenient depending on the phone software, but you may consider setting default ring to something less noticable and/or demanding than “friendly ringtone” that you can set to selected contacts. There is also “don’t distract” mode afaik, with an ability to list contacts who can do it anyway.

> "Why is it so hard to configure my phone to only allow my friends to interrupt me at any moment of the day, rather than any rando?"

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vladlee.bl...

Also, some Android phones seem to allow you to block calls from unknown numbers:

https://community.ee.co.uk/t5/4G-and-mobile-data/How-to-bloc...

I am not a lawyer, but if you can figure out who is calling you, I believe you can file a lawsuit against them for violating the TCPA (Telephone Consumer Protection Act), which carries statutory damages of up to $1,500 per violation.

Sources:

https://michaelrkn.github.io/how-to-sue-a-telemarketer/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/legalnewsline/2016/08/25/filing...

The law is probably not much help if they're scammers calling from overseas.

Criminals from India call us here in AUS pretending to be from some legitimate call centre, advising us of some non-existent government rebate.

Only ringing for people in your contacts is how a phone should work out-of-the box. But for some reason it is instead impossible.

Another good idea: a phone call from an unknown caller should be alerted with a short text stating who they are and what they want.

Google Voice can do this. If they aren't in your contacts, you can make it prompt them for their name which then will show up on your caller ID.

You can install an app that kills all unknown calls. That's what I did.

I've certainly thought about it (if anyone wants to suggest one they use, feel free), but I'm always held back by wondering whether or not those apps aren't simply yet another phone-number harvesting operation selling to spammers. (The fact that it would initially seem irrational to target people who are going out of their way to block spam callers would first require the entire notion of spam calling to be rational to begin with.)

I use nomorobo and highly recommend it.

They don’t store your contacts in the cloud and access to contacts is even optional (though they won’t be able to block spoofed ‘neighbor’ calls if you don’t give access, but they can label them).

They also market themselves as focused on privacy and they charge a $2/month subscription.

I haven’t gotten a spam call since I’ve used them.

That doesn't seem like a great idea. Like, one time my wife was hospitalized and they called to tell me. I think I would have been upset with myself if I didn't receive that call because I had installed an app to kill all calls from numbers I didn't recognize.

I use truecaller to automatically block spam calls, it works very well.

Truecaller harvests all your contacts and sells them to third parties like sync.me (huge reverse phonebook). You should look up a few of your contacts’ numbers in there.

Android's Do Not Disturb function should allow a setting for allow calls from contacts only. Mine does at least.

If that's not to your liking a third party app would most likely be all you need.

The problem with Do Not Disturb mode is that it blocks all notifications, too, right? I've turned off every type of notification except the ones I want (just Google Hangouts, since I use it for work). So, I can choose to either have a phone that rings (which I never want to happen for anyone I don't know) or Hangouts that doesn't.

I will have to look into third-party apps. I never really considered it, as I use Google Voice and want to keep using it, and didn't really think about it maybe being possible to use Voice plus something else that deals with calls...it seems like Voice is already too intrusive to inject more stuff in there (my calls are already delayed by as much as a couple of seconds coming in and out because of Voice; seems like more would just guarantee that I can't answer legit calls before it goes to voicemail).

But, I do need to sort it out. Recently I've been getting multiple calls a day and have resorted to leaving my ringer off completely. My mom worries, though, if I don't answer for a while.

Instead of ignoring those I usually answer and hang up to avoid the missed call notifications, clearing it, getting a VM notification a few second later, clearing that, then deleting it. Lately the callers have been calling right back too. It's really a lot of work. The worst thing is, I've had one false positive spam detection, it was from my bank and it was important, now I'm a little nervous to do the answer/hangup thing.

Do you have T-Mobile? The Spam Caller thing is actually a feature they implemented a while back. You can set the system to block such calls, but the FCC wouldn’t let them automatically block calls without user permission.

[0] http://explore.t-mobile.com/callprotection

If everybody who received spam calls wasted 5 minutes of the caller's time, then the whole problem would not exist.

On that note: https://www.reddit.com/r/itslenny/comments/4gjtd1/whats_your...

Oh wow, thanks for this. That subreddit was at least an hour of fun.

Here's a great podcast episode where the guy tracks his phone scammer to India and pays him a visit.

https://gimletmedia.com/episode/long-distance/

That was an unexpectedly dramatic story. With his Patton-like determination and complete unsubtlety, he was very lucky that didn't get uglier! I was really afraid for him by the end...

I strongly suspect it's your carrier preventing google from filtering these calls. I have google fi and it filters spam automatically (suspected spam at least disables ringer)

Similar. I only pick up the phone if I recognize the name, or it's the city where my kids go to school.

For me the ratio is only as bad as 5 to 0.2. Telephone spam is a major problem.

I use Truecaller on my Samsung phone and it really helps.

Truecaller does this for android

If you ever move. Make sure to go to the Post office and fill out the change of address there. If you do it online you are required to grant the USPS permission to sell your phone number.

I recently moved and immediately found the number of spam calls increase drastically. From 1-2 a week to ten a day.

Just curious where you got this information? I did it online a few years ago and iirc I was able to opt out of all the spammy 'covienience' services offered by USPS affiliates

From the USPS directly. I recently attempted to do it online and that was not an option available. I emailed them regarding that and was told I should fill out a card at the post office.

USPS does not sell or disclose phone numbers to third parties.

So I just went to USPS Official Change Of Address Site: https://moversguide.usps.com/icoa/home

"Exclusive Mover Savings Get instant access to over $750 in valuable coupons Safe and Secure Safeguard your information with ID verification by a simple $1.00 charge to your credit or debit card Speed and Convenience Save a trip to the post office Email Confirmation Receive an immediate email confirmation of your Change of Address MyMove.com Local Information, Tools and Offers Make your move complete with catalog forwarding services, neighborhood deals and more at MyMove.com"

Privacy Policy excerpt: "(e) to mailers, if already in possession of your name and old mailing address, as an address correction service. Information will also be provided to licensed service providers of the USPS to perform mailing list correction service of lists containing your name and old address. A list of these licensed service providers can be obtained at the following URL: http://ribbs.usps.gov/ncoalink /documents/tech_guides/CERTIFIED_LICENSEES" ^that returns a 404 for me

With a big blue "Agree and Continue" button... I certainly won't be entering my phone number in that form.

I will assume phone number can be considered part of "address" but it's unclear.

Oh, FFS, no they don't.

What they do is notify companies that already have your address of your new address. So (for example) your phone company and your magazine subscriptions are told of your new address.

They don't sell or disclose phone numbers.

There is also no way to opt out.

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