Same. That and the fact it took me an afternoon to get an hello world with react and understand it. And 20 minutes with Vue.
I highly recommend watching Rich Hickey's "Simple Made Easy" [1] talk which covers how the right ("simple") choice may not be the "easiest" (convenient, most familiar) one.
The talk I referenced talks about how the opposite is often true. Tools that result in objectively simpler systems can come with a initially steeper learning curve.
> You can't accurately deduce from time alone that the time to pick up Vue was based on familiarity with similar libraries.
True, I was really just suggesting questioning instincts when evaluating tools based on the initial 'time to get started'.
I'm aware of Rich Hickey and Clojure. In my experience with Lisps, although they are superficially simple, they make you do more abstraction work than is necessary in more commonly used high-level imperative languages. Lisp seems to strongly encourage building a high number of helper functions, which is fine if you're highly opinionated about how a job should be done, and less so if you just want to import some battle-tested libraries and write something that gets the job done. I suspect this is where the learning curve with Clojure really comes in, in that it's more closely related to being learn how to architect an application in a Lisp-friendly way than it is about getting familiar with the language.
I've heard it suggested somewhere that possibly the leap is in believing that 'a simple thing + a simple thing = a simple thing'.
https://github.com/facebookincubator/create-react-app
npm install -g create-react-app
create-react-app my-app
cd my-app/
npm start
I'm probably starting to sound like a shill for React. I've used both and love both. I do like that React is "just javascript", which I think is why I use it.
My pet peeve with react is that I can't just code. I have to stop every 10 steps and reflect on the tool I use, instead of the problem I'm trying to solve.
Create React App gives you a zero configuration way to not only write hello world, but also bootstrap a non-trivial production ready application. In the company I work for, we were previously using JSPM/SystemJS/Gulp. We replaced all of that with create-react-app. It allows you to very easily bootstrap existing applications on top of it: http://fredrik.anderzon.se/2016/12/04/adding-create-react-ap...
And if you want full control of your project, you can "eject" and CRA will generate the webpack configuration file being used so that you can tweak to your heart's content.
I use React daily, and the whole experience has been extremely pleasant.
That means you want to be able to understand it well enough to write the webpack required for a react pack from memory.
And with react, that's years of learning.
Thank you! Every time I've tried react (and enough attempts were made to finally decide it was just not for me), there was always something in the back of my mind that I didn't like and I just couldn't put it to words. You just described what it was.
And, if one forgoes tooling, then the situation is like the one you described in your previous comment: an afternoon just to get a "Hello world".
Any application that I've built which actually required a technology like Vue or React was a significant undertaking and a few hours getting up and going (not that either of them require anywhere close to that) is nothing.
It makes experimenting easier for beginners, for people considering switching to it, for people who are already using it and want to try something outside the context of their existing codebase, for people writing tutorials and demos, etc.
The less bullshit to wade through when using a tool, the more situations it will be applicable to, regardless of skill level or project size.
Secondly, a lot of my projects just don't need anything else. If i have a 2 weeks contract with a client, i'm not going to setup webpack, a ci server and docker.
Having the choice to scale up or down is an amazing feature.
So...2030.
https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/scripting.html#custom... https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#shadow-trees
In summary, vue offers a simpler hands on experience while allowing smooth learning curve to more complicated setup matching react's.
React just throws you in unkown waters and say 'now swim'. And on the side of the river, 3 persons are screaming to you contradictory advices.
BTW - You don't need webpack for React either. It is entirely possible to write React without it.
Not at all. That's the beauty of it. A lot of projects just drop Vue in a script tag and use no components. There are 1000's of projects out there with such a scale that anything else would be overdoing it.
> BTW - You don't need webpack for React either. It is entirely possible to write React without it.
Technically yes. But realistically no. First, you will find almost zero doc/tutorials on how to do so. All the ecosystem and community assumes webpack, and a top-down component architecture. If you ask on a forum how to do x, people will promptly tell you to use Redux. And the React API is clearly not comfortable anyway without tooling.
It's a bit like saying "well you could perfectly code a Java project without an IDE". Yes you can. But who would do it ?
And the reason is: projects starts small, and grow. But not all grow to become large.
The wonderful thing with vue: you start small, and IF you reach the stage you need more, you can do so easily.