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Comment by ookware | Hacker News Reader

Today my officers spent hours talking to a victim of rape, looking after her children and dealing with the aftermath.

I'm sure she'd love that on YouTube for all to see.

I don't think this is a compelling argument.

What is the connection between enforcement of statutory code and medical aid / emergency response? Why do these social services need to be delivered by LEOs?

At my college, one of the best things my student government did was first response in cases of rape and sexual assault. We had a phone number that people were able to call and get a response from a peer who had been trained in the next steps of response, allowing the victim to gain composure and support before dealing with the law enforcement apparatus.

We had a similar service for cases of mental health / psychedelic emergency.

There is no reason that law enforcement need to be first responders in cases of medical emergency.

Unless we're talking about walking back the Peelian principles (and arguably all that is good about western notions of liberty), it is a continuing imperative to ensure that police officers can strictly enforce the law and do so in full public view.

Replace talking about a rape with any of many reasons the police might be called and it makes just as little sense to have all these videos public.

Super innocent example: A 14 year old kid breaks their leg and the cops show up to them in agony and crying. Would be very easy for a few people that dislike them to plaster them crying all over social media. Yes, the event was public to begin with, but the chances of one of the bullies walking by and snapping their own photos is almost nil.

A lot of people that are interacting with the police are in a very vulnerable state, it would be asinine to expose that to the world. The thought that it will create "good will" with the public is entirely backwards in my opinion, if I'm in trouble and I know if I get the cops that I may end up all over the internet it may keep me from calling them at all.

> Super innocent example: A 14 year old kid breaks their leg and the cops show up to them in agony and crying.

This seems like the same argument. What does enforcement of the laws have to do with medical aid? Why has our society conflated these two things?

I assert that the state has an interest in injecting law enforcement concepts in all sorts of situation precisely because it opens up uncertainty over its public nature.

Instead, we need law enforcement to be its own discrete activity, and among its norms for it to be entirely public and based on public consent.

Why are we rehashing this almost 200 years after Robert Peel's work?

Police are people who are trained to deal with stress, qualified to take witness statements (which insurance often requires), have a level of medical knowledge, can get places fast and can get more help (and possibly better qualified help) quick. Why wouldn’t you want them there?

You used the term "first responders" a post or two up. Police are often the "first responders" to numerous incidents, enforcement or otherwise, simply because they are near the scene and are (rightfully) trained in basic first aid and generally have first aid supplies in their cruiser. Police _should_ be trained to and respond to incidents other than enforcement actions. They are members of our communities, they are employed to protect us (ostensibly).

It is generally the idea that all police do or should do is enforce the law that leads to divisiveness and brutality.

You don’t want police involvement in rapes?

Edit: nice, you edit the parent and don’t note it.

Have you been involved in responding to rape and sexual assault? I have.

There are worlds of difference between jurisdictions in this regard. And also substantial differences in the specifics of a case.

In the (rare) case of a rapist jumping out of the bushes and tackling someone, and then running away in hot pursuit, then sure, a law-enforcement-first response makes sense.

In the far more frequent date rape / party rape situation, where the victim is left to piece together the episode the next morning, then no, I think that there are far, far better responses than LEO-first.

What a great game of ‘one up’ to play.

Maybe the victim should call whoever they want. Like they can now.

Until you get the separation of concerns that you are arguing would make publishing surveillance footage a non-issue, it is an issue.

Not everyone has the same privilege as a college student here and now.

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