Comment by Mz | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Mz | Hacker News Reader

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Asking for successful examples is not inherently flawed. Ideally, you would want some idea of what they did right and why it worked. Good examples of what work can be very helpful, if you have some idea of why they worked.

It might also help to get stories of failures and why they failed. I will give you mine.

I met someone online who wanted me to partner with them on a business. I was interested, but later learned that what they wanted from me was illegal. At that point, I bowed out.

A not for profit project that I worked on turned sour for me and I bailed. Looking back on it, I concluded the founder was looking for a step and fetch to provide the time and energy for the project they could not spare while also working full time and raising a family.

If you just want a step and fetch, don't pretend they are a partner. Pay someone to do menial tasks that you simply don't have time for.

Make sure there is something in it for them. Both of the above examples were looking out for their interests. Neither really thought about my side of things. Screwing someone over is not a means to lay the foundations for trust and a long term partnership.

You're right (particularly on the ethics side).

Ethics is your word for it.

People always seem to think I am talking about ethics. I'm not. I'm just saying "You can't get there from here."

If you want a partner, you need to do certain things that establish that we are in this together and it needs to be designed such that when you both work together, you are both better off for it.

Using people comes back to bite you. You don't need ethics to decide it is stupid and doesn't really work. Pissing on someone tends to come back to bite you exactly when you need someone to have your back. Pressure reveals exactly what you have built and that the foundation is not strong.

Yeah we might be talking about the same thing using different words. For example a fair (and contractually on paper) co-founder agreement is something i think about a lot (and did some research on).

The word ethics has a lot of baggage. It seems to very often suggest some abstract concept of goodness and righteousness. It often appears to lead people astray.

I am just trying to make the distinction that I am talking about something more like "the physics of social phenomena." Just because you can't see gravity doesn't mean it can't drag you down. Just because social stuff often seems invisible doesn't mean there isn't something real and substantial behind it (that can be studied, though it is a challenging space).

And it's fine if you want to think of it in terms of ethics. I am just saying that, in my experience, when people start talking about ethics, they often get derailed from practical considerations. That idea often leads to people doing things backwards and having it backfire.

And maybe that won't be the case for you. But, it is a word I tend to be leery of.

Best of luck.

Yeah guess i wouldn’t even be comfortable entering a partnership like this without a co-founder agreement for the protection of the interests of both parties (therefore removing unnecessary obstacles :)

Edit: which is, as far as i know, the best way to deal with it

Yes, if it isn't your sibling, high school chum or college roommate, putting everything in writing up front is generally the best policy. Even if it is one of those categories, a contract is very valuable should some problem arise.

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