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Comment by randyrand | Hacker News Reader

Is racial profiling actually considered racism?

I thought it was its own category because it's not a form of prejudice, but instead refers to the use of race based statistical reasoning.

I'd rather we keep the line drawn. and not muddy the racist card.

e.g. RacialProfilistDoor is more apt

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It’s true that making decisions based on statistical risk is different from people acting out of hate. Indeed, it can be seductive to people with a basic understandinge of math that data driven decisions should be more fair minded.

But the devil is in the details. It’s famously easy to make bad decisions based on “flawless” calculations that simply don’t interpret data right or don’t take all factors into consideration. Statistics is known for this peril even in mundane business situations, but with problems that are controversial, and affect people’s lives, it’s even more perilous.

Here basic profiling would tell me you are male, correct? Did you know people like you commit 99% of murder and violent crime? Can you really blame me for crossing to the other side of the street if I see you walking toward me at night?

> Here basic profiling would tell me you are male, correct? Did you know people like you commit 99% of murder and violent crime?

In case anyone was curious, the United States Bureau of Justice Statistics believes that men are responsible for ~90% of murders and ~80% of violent crime (in the US).

Thank you for the correction. I knew it was way up there but was just trying to recall off the top of my head.

I don’t think it’s a bad idea to profile men, especially based on whatever signals they’re sending via dress/appearance, gait, etc.

Cross the street! Safety is more important than a stranger’s feelings of acceptance and comfort. This is common sense.

Oh, all these people on NextDoor have carefully built validated statistical models based on clean, individually gathered data? Tell me more.

Because if not, this sounds like a fancy way to dress up racial prejudice.

>Oh, all these people on NextDoor have carefully built validated statistical models based on clean, individually gathered data?

Take a look at FBI crime statistics by race and gender sometime. Witnessing a Asian woman committing a property or violent crime is statistically speaking like winning the lottery. If I was to assess the risk of an Asian woman walking down the street I'd rate the risk as lower than any other demographic group, is that racist and sexist?

Oh, of course your name has "kek" in it.

If you treat people negatively because of their race, yes, that's racist.

So I can assume that you don't support affirmative action?

Why don't we just skip your half-assed white supremacist gotchas.

I'm Chinese. You seem to be a victim of your own prejudice.

I look forward to you proving that. My account's tied to my real identity, so step right up and do yours.

I don't give my personal information to mean spirited bigots. I certainly reject any suggestion I provide evidence of my race as that seems like a Nazi tactic and rather unamerican.

If you won't stand behind your words, I'm quite happy to share your view that they're not worth it.

Elderly people are probably just as scarce in some of those statistics.

Yes they do. And it's even hardware accelerated in the brain! Racial profiling is one word for a special case, but the general case is just refereed to as learning - e.g. using personal brain-stored data from the past to make future predictions.

That's mostly ridiculous. If the data they're using from their past is on past crime that they have experienced, that might be fine. But the data I can find shows that violent crime that white people experience is mostly by other white people. And regardless, most people don't experience enough crime to form statistically valid inferences about who criminals are.

And even if they did, it would be dumb statistics. If I am murdered, it's 80% likely it'll be by a white guy. But that doesn't mean I should just assume all the white guys I meet are probable murderers. It doesn't even mean that I should take precautions around white guys, however dangerous they are to me, because the odds of a given white dude being a murderer is still very low.

As studies and Nextdoor's experience show, people will racially profile strangers entirely in absence of actual experience. Indeed, as I mentioned elsewhere, people from all-white areas are much more likely to profile, and to do it in exaggerated, hysterical fashion, precisely because they have no real basis to form useful inferences about an entire race of people. Racial profiling is mostly just dressed-up tribalist nonsense. And it has been used in the US to kill thousands of black people [1], at least.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundown_town. E.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot

Racial profiling is 100% prejudice -- pre-judgment based on race alone.

There isn't a universal definition of racism, but racial profiling is certainly a historical tool of racists and racist policies.

Being harassed for no reason except the color of your skin is equally harmful whether it's down to white-supremacist politics or cold statistics.

That seems to me to fall well within the umbra of "Discrimination or prejudice based on race."

http://www.wordnik.com/words/racism

Sure, but definitions aside, are we fine with it? I'm fine with it. I think there is a perfectly reasonable distinction between being cautious and wary of individuals based on statistical evidence (including race/gender/age/dress/demeanor), and treating them differently once you start interacting with them.

I.e. Every individual I talk to has a fresh, blank slate with me. Stereotypes and "profiling" only really apply until you start getting a concrete instance of said group, and deal with them in getting "fresh" data that is unique to them.

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